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What's the worst Charge to range result you've gotten.

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Levi, May 6, 2015.

  1. Levi

    Levi Member

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    #1 Levi, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
    I'm about a hair away from Contacting my Reg VP to exercise my warranty on my 60.

    I did a test of going no charge for a couple of days (2 or 3) and using the car normally, city and highway driving, AC running, etc. As you would "normally" use a car without restrictions.

    I have 9 miles left of rated range.
    And I've driven 99.8 miles since last charge (charged at 90%)

    I called Tech Support and my Srevice Center, and all I've gotten so far are "gullible customer" answers.
    So, last time I spoke out, I was told to forward an email to the Reg VP, and deal with it through that venue.
    Regardless of how "bad" you drive the car, there should NOT be an excuse for a 50% loss in range. That's ridiculous.

    -Levi.
     
  2. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    What size battery does your car have? Did you buy the car new? What did the car show you had for miles available after you charged to 90%? Did you notice the car used 2x the miles it should have for each small trip you took? In other words, if you went on a short hop to the grocery store 2 miles away and the car showed 200 miles range when you started, did it show 150 when you got to the grocery? Or did the drastic drop in range only show up on day 3? What does the car say you used in kwhr/mile?

    If you drove 99.8 miles and had 200 miles to start out with, no way you should have less than 50 miles remaining - that's if you ran with the heater on and were driving in 20 degree F weather. I drove my Model S for 2 years and never had near the loss in rated miles you are reporting. Unless you made a mistake of some kind (we're all human and it happens), something is wrong with your car.
     
  3. Levi

    Levi Member

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    -60kw
    - Used
    - 176
    - No
    - No
    - I'm not sure.
    - 357
    - No, it's 76deg outside.
    - I've had mine since November last year, and never had THIS big an issue. In fact, I never had an issue until they took it in to California for an "update".
     
  4. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    Sounds about right.
    You have the small battery and did a bunch of short trips which tend to be less efficient (357).
    The advantage of an electric car is that you can plug it in at home each night and start the day with a full charge and no worries about range.
    (Note: Please be nice to the Tesla people when you talk to them. They are not scammers and are not trying to put off. They are genuinely trying to help you. Consider that you might have unrealistic expectations.)
     
  5. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Oh, that sounds interesting. Can you tell a little about this - why was it necessary? was the car having a problem? Did they contact you and take it or did you take it in for something and they took it?

    So you know what you're talking about - had the car since November. I saw 9 posts and thought maybe you'd just had the car a week and were confused.

    Have you driven the car 100 miles or more on the highway since you got it back? How does it do kwh/mile on the highway?

    In all honesty I've never tried what you did, but now that you've given me the idea I'm going to give it a shot when I get my car (which is soon I hope!!).
     
  6. Zextraterrestrial

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    what is your connectivity setting set to? sleep at night, always connected, etc ?
    this can make a pretty big difference over 2 to 3 days while not plugged in.
     
  7. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    crap, can't believe I forgot to ask that
     
  8. Levi

    Levi Member

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    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I have done lots of research, long before I Was able to purchase my Tesla.
    "Small trips" And "Less Efficient" does not equate to 50% range.
    And I'm not sureif you read, but I have had my car for about 6 months already, I'm not really "new" to the scene. I've put 10,000 miles on my car already.
    And I am nice to the Tesla people, but once they start to give me the run around, and not answering my questions with a solution to my problem, and instead I get an "excuse" to my problem, that's when I become not so nice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes, on a routine Service Check Up, I was told that my battery needed a "mechanical update". Something to do with the early 2013 60kwh batteries. The took it off, gave me a loaner battery, and shipped it off to California to do this update. 2 months later, I got my battery back, "updated", and IMMEDIATELY, my charged rate dropped 24 miles. So, I've been discussing with them about this, and all I've gotten is "explanations" to why this would happen. Not that it "SHOULDN'T" have happened.
    For, if they would have never done the update, I would be getting the normal range I used to get when I first bought the car.

    Yes, I've driven the car longer than 100 miles. So, far, up til about a week ago, I've been getting around .65-1 ratio for my range( edited: at its WORST, I've gotten that ratio. At BEST, it's around 85-90% projected range/actual range), of freeway driving, 65mph, normal weather conditions, normal roads. It wasn't until I did this "test" that I noticed this "discrepancy"

    Try it out. They tell you that you should charge every day. And I do. But what if you didn't. Would you still get the same range (as far as driving is concerned, not sustained charge) as you would if you would have plugged in???.....makes you wonder, eh??

    - - - Updated - - -

    I charge at 40 amps, with a NEMA 14-50. 30 mi/hr avrg. charge rate.

    Always at night because I have a "free nights" plan. (yeah, I'm literally driving for 0 dollars)
    Always connected.

    Again though, the problem is not how many miles I've "lost" overnight, or with the car sitting. I understand that loss of charge.
    The problem is that, seen as a big picture. I started out with 176 miles, and now I have none, but driven only 99 of those 176 miles.
    That's about a 60% of actual range for the charge. There is NO WAY this is acceptable. I could MAYBE understand if I was in Alaska, but it's bright, sunny, no wind, and normal driving (not drag racing).

    -Levi
     
  9. Zextraterrestrial

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    @ 357 Whr/mi for a 90% battery with 176 rated you should be getting something like 136 miles total.
    9 miles remaining

    add in 2 or 3 days (48-60?) hours or however long

    27 missing miles isn't that crazy at all

    especially always connected....~200w?*50 hrs = 10kWhr => 30mi

    maybe turn off 'always connected' and do it again?
    (and please tell the difference, I haven't ran in always connected ever)
     
  10. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Sorry I'm a little slow - but just to clarify - if you take a highway trip driving 65 mph in normal weather and go 100 miles, and you start out with 176 miles on your battery, does it show 76 miles when you finish? Or 70, or 50?

    Also, I'm not familiar with the 60 kwh pack - I had an 85 before. Is 176 normal for 90%?
     
  11. Levi

    Levi Member

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    Now, while your math DOES make sense. I've never seen this happen before.
    This is not the first time I've done this test, and it's never been this bad.
    So...
     
  12. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    Perhaps you can also be nice to the readers here and not use the word you did 4 words into your first post. Using an asterix also doesn't change how we read it, although it does allow you to get by the program used to delete those types of words. I find it offensive and I'm no prude but this is a family forum, and my kids often read over my shoulder, and there's no excuse for using for that type of language.
     
  13. Levi

    Levi Member

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    Normally, as I said in my edit, I get about 85% of the projected range (if I start out at 100 miles, and drive normal conditions at 65mph, I will go as far as 85 miles, on average, total distance.

    176 miles, I guess, because of how old the battery is, etc, is KINDA normal. 60kwh start out, new, with a 208 mi/100% rated range. Degradation over time, will take it's toll, but it should be gradual, slow, and not sudden. My battery is 2 year old.
    Right now, I get about 197/100% full rated range charge. Which is great. HOWEVER, before they took the battery for the update, I was getting, CONSTANTLY, WITHOUT FAIL, between 200-203/100% full charge rated range.
    Suddenly, as soon as the gave me my old battery back with the new "update", OVERNIGHT, that dropped 20 miles.
    My 90% was 186ish. After update, 174.

    So, something definitely happened in California that they're not telling me. At least making sense.

    -L

    - - - Updated - - -


    Ok. I'm going to charge to 100% tonight, and do the test all over again, but with all "energy savings" options. See where that leads me.
    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep you posted.

    -Levi
     
  14. tiblot

    tiblot Member

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    I own a Mid 2014 60kwh MS. My 90% has been 184-181 depending on weather. I have not, ever gotten a 50% range to actual miles driven ratio.

    In all seasons except winter, I get around 300 kw/h usage and get very very close to the rated range. In winter, I probably run about 380-400 kwh and end up doing 120-150 actual miles on a 90% charge, depending on number of short trips, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -


    My range loss with sleep mode on is at most 2 miles / 12 hours. Except in sub freezing temps, that will double to 4 miles / 12 hours.

    Sleep mode off, runs around 6-7 miles / 12 hours.
     
  15. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    I have to agree with this post, Levi. You lost me in your first 4 words...
     
  16. wndrful

    wndrful Member

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    Losing 24 miles after mechanical update? That's like 10%! Not done.
    That's strange. Did you get the same battery pack back? Possible to compare serial numbers before and after?
    Another possibility is that Tesla service messed up. Most possibly, they didn't take care of your battery while shipping or repairing. Maybe they let it drain to zero or something similar and battery had a permanent capacity loss. If it is a mechanical repair and battery went through zero charging cycles then there should be 0 loss of range.

    Sincere and earnest request: Can you please edit your first post and reword your sentence? Thanks.
     
  17. mwulff

    mwulff Member

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    I would start by balancing the pack, your usage pattern would tend to "de-balance" it over time. To balance the pack charge it to 100% and let it charge until it says "charge complete", this can take hours btw. Then immediatly drive the car. Don't let it sit fully charged for too long.
     
  18. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    I suggest you charge to 100%, go for a highway drive at 65 mph that drains the battery to 2% (4-5 miles remaining), then record your mileage. Repeat a second time. That will give you the best sense of what the problem is.
     
  19. rdrcrmatt

    rdrcrmatt Member

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    This is dead on.

    2-3 days of normal not in use battery drain and 357wi/mi 100 miles of range on a 90% charge on a 60kwhr totally makes sense.


    You can complain when you drive 300wh/mi for a single drive that almost completely drains the battery and get WAY less than your rated range. I don't even know what I get anymore, I switched to percentage view in the display and use the energy graphs to compute how much range I have based on how much energy I'm actually using.
     
  20. Levi

    Levi Member

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    I just thought about doing this, because of how upset I am.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm actually doing this tomorrow morning. I'll post results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is a good idea also. I'm gonna try that tonight
     

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