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Picked up my 75 a couple weeks ago. 90% charge yields 221 miles for me, and I'm averaging 305 kw/mi.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
I have done this so called "Balancing" exercise once at about the 6 month mark. The net result was no
improvement in Rated Miles. The rated miles neither increased or decreased. However I did notice when coming down
to 90% from 100% that as soon as I went from 91% to 90% the rated miles equivalent was 234, as I drove
more and more I kept flipping from % to miles, so my 90% is between 232 and 234 depending upon if you
are coming UP to the 90% from 89% or DOWN to the 90% from 91%.
So each percent of charge is about 3 rated miles wide in my S, but my calculations show it to be 2.61 rated miles
in actuality.
I have two driver profiles set up, one showing % and other showing rated miles. This makes the view change
much easier as units is a driver profile saved parameter.
improvement in Rated Miles. The rated miles neither increased or decreased. However I did notice when coming down
to 90% from 100% that as soon as I went from 91% to 90% the rated miles equivalent was 234, as I drove
more and more I kept flipping from % to miles, so my 90% is between 232 and 234 depending upon if you
are coming UP to the 90% from 89% or DOWN to the 90% from 91%.
So each percent of charge is about 3 rated miles wide in my S, but my calculations show it to be 2.61 rated miles
in actuality.
I have two driver profiles set up, one showing % and other showing rated miles. This makes the view change
much easier as units is a driver profile saved parameter.
If you have Remote S you can see both miles and % at the same time. It's interesting to watch it going up and on it's way down in addition the impact of Range Mode on the algorithm which for me is minimal (.36 of a mile).
Art, when you did the balancing exercise, how far did you bring it down?
rogbmw
Member
2013 Model S 85 - 234 miles at 90% charge.
We have a 2013 S 85 delivered Feb 2013. Our 90% charge has essentially remained the same over our 3 years and 8 months of ownership. When we purchased the car, our 90% charge was 235-236 miles. 6 months into ownership our Battery pack was changed out due to a bad cell from an A pack to a B pack. After the change, which occurred in the fall of 2013, we noted no real change in range, with a 90% charge in the 235-236 mile range after the pack change. I charge all the time to 90% at 30A at 1:00 am in the morning, and it is 90% charged when I go to work each day. I am still routinely getting 233 - 234 miles of range with a 90% charge (my range was 234 this morning), and am still getting 260 - 264 miles of range on a 100% charge (as reference, my 100% range when the car was new was 266 miles). I only charge to 100% for occasional longer trips, and if I don't go on a long trip every 2 - 3 months, I will 100% charge once every 2 - 3 months to balance the battery pack.
We have a 2013 S 85 delivered Feb 2013. Our 90% charge has essentially remained the same over our 3 years and 8 months of ownership. When we purchased the car, our 90% charge was 235-236 miles. 6 months into ownership our Battery pack was changed out due to a bad cell from an A pack to a B pack. After the change, which occurred in the fall of 2013, we noted no real change in range, with a 90% charge in the 235-236 mile range after the pack change. I charge all the time to 90% at 30A at 1:00 am in the morning, and it is 90% charged when I go to work each day. I am still routinely getting 233 - 234 miles of range with a 90% charge (my range was 234 this morning), and am still getting 260 - 264 miles of range on a 100% charge (as reference, my 100% range when the car was new was 266 miles). I only charge to 100% for occasional longer trips, and if I don't go on a long trip every 2 - 3 months, I will 100% charge once every 2 - 3 months to balance the battery pack.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
I brought the traction battery down to 7% which about 17 miles of rated range, then up to 100%
then back down to 10% and back up to 100%. Did this once in September. No increase in Rated Range.... made me wonder if
somehow or someway, my pack was "in balance"? But how? Or does the P90DL pack differ in "balancing"?
One thing that we do not know for sure, and I wonder about this, ... is the BMS the same for all Tesla batteries and models, since day one of the S... or has Tesla made variants of versions of the BMS?
If there are versions, then I wonder out loud here if the only way to "trigger" a traction pack "balancing" is to go to 93% or higher. Or is there some other algorithm in place in more recent packs.... that for instance.... note the number of hours since last balancing and invoke a balancing event, given a correct set of circumstances....??
WK057's early pack that he did experiments on.... is it representative of the 90D and P100D packs as far as the BMS is concerned?
One has to wonder if Tesla Motors, who is utterly quiet about this aspect, has made improvements over the various generations of the pack's BMS and how balancing is done, what triggers it, etc. I do not think TM would be lethargic in this critical area. But who knows?
One last thought.... the new 60 kWh pack is as we all know a 75 kWh pack. The 60 when totally charged is 80% state of charge of the 75 kWh pack. If the BMS only balances at 93% or beyond, then none of the 60 kWh packs will ever start a balancing cycle. Therefore, one has to believe there is some new tech in the BMS, for the 60 that must trigger the balancing event... your thoughts?
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Can't comment on the 75 kWh pack but I have also wondered the same thing. AFAIK wk057 only tested the 85 kwh pack. I always rebalance to 100% just to be sure I'm triggering it. Very good points on the BMS and I've often wondered the same thing; namely are they different in different generations of cars (makes sense that they are).
I'm very surprised you didn't get miles added after your balancing exercise as it sounds like you did it right. I really don't think you have 3% loss maybe 1 possibly 2 but not 3+.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
Well MSNOW, when the Silver Surfer was new in March 16, it had 241 rated miles at 90%, now it shows 232-234 (depending on coming up or going down to 90%) so 233 / 241 -1 = 3.3%
What can I say... I can totally live with that at 7+ months and 9,900 very pleasant and fun filled miles. Now that the cooler weather here in NE has arrived, I am on Range Mode. I was off of Range Mode in the hot summer months. Let's see what the more temperate weather brings as far as rated range. For the last week I have pretty much not used HVAC, just the fan bringing in cooler air. I did notice that with AIR COND off and fresh air on, if you boost the fan speed above 8 or 9 the climate system will switch to recirculate mode and not bring outside air in. Wonder why? Now in the cooler weather, my usual daily drives which used to be 320 Wh/m are now in the 290 range. HVAC off and Range Mode on have some small cause in this I am sure. For a P90DL that is tremendous Wh/m.
What can I say... I can totally live with that at 7+ months and 9,900 very pleasant and fun filled miles. Now that the cooler weather here in NE has arrived, I am on Range Mode. I was off of Range Mode in the hot summer months. Let's see what the more temperate weather brings as far as rated range. For the last week I have pretty much not used HVAC, just the fan bringing in cooler air. I did notice that with AIR COND off and fresh air on, if you boost the fan speed above 8 or 9 the climate system will switch to recirculate mode and not bring outside air in. Wonder why? Now in the cooler weather, my usual daily drives which used to be 320 Wh/m are now in the 290 range. HVAC off and Range Mode on have some small cause in this I am sure. For a P90DL that is tremendous Wh/m.
I was told by Tesla in 2013 that the BMS continually monitors and balances cells as needed and at all charge levels. It's something that is always happening in the background and not just at a specific charge level. That's what they told me, anyway.
If we could rely on what someone in Tesla said, that would be great, but different folks have received different stories on various aspects, so right now the best information is from those, such as WK57, who have done some reverse engineering.
Walta
Member
Hi, I have a P90DL Oct 2015. Early on I remember my 100% was 268 - then rather quickly dropped to 250.
My 90% is now around 225. Over the last year I have been in contact with Tesla asking them to explain the range loss, since it is expected to get around 268 at 100%. This has been an ongoing issue, and over the last month or two they are claiming it is a software issue. After patiently waiting for the software fix, to no avail, I have asked them to replace my battery or return me the $3000. I have noted that the newer P90D cars are getting around 270 at 100%, and are holding that range. A couple days ago I asked them to bubble the issue up to higher management. I have not heard back from them as yet, and today asked for status, and was told they would try again.
So that is where it is at right now. I will keep everyone updated as this issue progresses.
And once again.. other than this range issue I absolutely LOVE the car.
My 90% is now around 225. Over the last year I have been in contact with Tesla asking them to explain the range loss, since it is expected to get around 268 at 100%. This has been an ongoing issue, and over the last month or two they are claiming it is a software issue. After patiently waiting for the software fix, to no avail, I have asked them to replace my battery or return me the $3000. I have noted that the newer P90D cars are getting around 270 at 100%, and are holding that range. A couple days ago I asked them to bubble the issue up to higher management. I have not heard back from them as yet, and today asked for status, and was told they would try again.
So that is where it is at right now. I will keep everyone updated as this issue progresses.
And once again.. other than this range issue I absolutely LOVE the car.
jerjozwik
Active Member
ive been locked in a 237 for many months now. for a moment i though the car had recalculated itself in 8.0 because for one wonderful morning it displayed 240 rated miles. sadly its because i had accidentally set the car to charge to 92% via the phone app....
My range continues to increase since delivery 15 months ago ...posting this will likely end that ...
85D, delivered July 2015. Usually charge to 90% daily finishing shortly before I leave for work; car sits at work at ~82% and then sits at home overnight at about 75% until charging begins around 7AM. I often do not charge on the weekend allowing the car to sit at a lower state of charge. When I do charge, it is almost always to 90%. Range charge every few months and usually run it through a 20% to 100% to 20% to 90% cycle. Range increases have some correlation with software updates and range charge cycles, but not completely. 19,000km or 12,000 miles. All numbers with range mode off.
2016 90% Low-High range by month,
Dec: 238.97 - 239.04
Jan: 238.35 - 239.72
Feb: 239.04 - 239.72
Mar: 238.99 - 240.74
Apr: 240.74 - 241.10
May: 240.74 - 241.10
June: 240.41 - 240.75
July: 240.41 - 240.75
Aug: 240.75 - 241.10
Sept: 240.75 - 241.79
Oct: 241.43 - 241.79
Range Charges:
July 2015: 265
Dec: 266.00
Feb: 266.53
June: 267.24
Sept: 267.93
Oct: 268.28
85D, delivered July 2015. Usually charge to 90% daily finishing shortly before I leave for work; car sits at work at ~82% and then sits at home overnight at about 75% until charging begins around 7AM. I often do not charge on the weekend allowing the car to sit at a lower state of charge. When I do charge, it is almost always to 90%. Range charge every few months and usually run it through a 20% to 100% to 20% to 90% cycle. Range increases have some correlation with software updates and range charge cycles, but not completely. 19,000km or 12,000 miles. All numbers with range mode off.
2016 90% Low-High range by month,
Dec: 238.97 - 239.04
Jan: 238.35 - 239.72
Feb: 239.04 - 239.72
Mar: 238.99 - 240.74
Apr: 240.74 - 241.10
May: 240.74 - 241.10
June: 240.41 - 240.75
July: 240.41 - 240.75
Aug: 240.75 - 241.10
Sept: 240.75 - 241.79
Oct: 241.43 - 241.79
Range Charges:
July 2015: 265
Dec: 266.00
Feb: 266.53
June: 267.24
Sept: 267.93
Oct: 268.28
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Not as far as I noticed, and I doubt it. The below is a dash picture I took when I picked up the car showing 385km (239 Miles) at 90% charge, which would work out to about 265 at 100%. It had just been unplugged and as you can see from the energy graph, had not yet moved from the factory reset. Plus, I think the website range numbers may have been changed a few times over the years. I thought they were listing 265 in July of 2015.
<edit> Nope, it was listed at 270 EPA ...so should have been 391 km. So either it wasn't fully charged, or I actually did lose some range the first few months after delivery, maybe when I was charging to 70-80% daily. The good news is that I've still been gaining range for the past ten months.
<edit 2> discovered that the EPA rating is done with range mode on and it is a 5km difference (source: MaxRange Battery Survey)
View media item 116173
<edit> Nope, it was listed at 270 EPA ...so should have been 391 km. So either it wasn't fully charged, or I actually did lose some range the first few months after delivery, maybe when I was charging to 70-80% daily. The good news is that I've still been gaining range for the past ten months.
<edit 2> discovered that the EPA rating is done with range mode on and it is a 5km difference (source: MaxRange Battery Survey)
View media item 116173
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Yeah, when you enter range, the chart asks if range mode was on or off,and then adjusts your number to what it would have been with range mode on to compare against the EPA number. My initial range matched the EPA number after being adjusted for range mode. From the chart notes on the site:
"When range mode is on, the displayed range in the car increases a few miles or km. For all calculations, this chart uses range numbers with range mode on because this statement by Jerome Guillen: "EPA testing is [done] with range mode on, given that it is assumed customers will use that function when they want to drive the farthest." In other words, because the range scores are achieved with range mode on, it is more accurate to do calculations based on range numbers when range mode is on. But users don't have to turn on range mode just to read their 100% charged range. The chart will calculate that accurately."
"When range mode is on, the displayed range in the car increases a few miles or km. For all calculations, this chart uses range numbers with range mode on because this statement by Jerome Guillen: "EPA testing is [done] with range mode on, given that it is assumed customers will use that function when they want to drive the farthest." In other words, because the range scores are achieved with range mode on, it is more accurate to do calculations based on range numbers when range mode is on. But users don't have to turn on range mode just to read their 100% charged range. The chart will calculate that accurately."
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