What's your 90%?

[jschwefel]

2012 P85 with 67k miles and currently averaging 314wh/mile (winter miles with heat, etc.)

90% = 226 miles, which is the same as it was last year.

 

[wcfinvader]

Greeted by the following this morning:
View attachment 221022

Got to work, with about 67% SoC (137 miles). Plugged in and car won't charge. Simply says "charge complete".

Wow exact thing happened to us Wednesday. What was the cause? Why did they have to rebuild? We were just told that we have to wait for a loaner pack to be shipped to the service center and then they'll send ours to Fremont. I must admit a new pack would calm my frustration of not being able to upgrade to a 100 kwh pack.

 

[scaesare]

Sorry to hear that @wcfinvader ,,,

Didn't find a root cause, as they had a pack (remanufactured after all as I had expected it would have been) that they simply installed rather than the loaner/rebuild of mine as you describe.

The good news is that, although a reman, it's right in line with what my previous pack range was (I got 227 miles for a 90% charge this morning). And it's a "-D" revision pack.

Out of curiosity, what's the age/mileage for your pack at the time of failure? Also, did you have the rapidly reducing range like I saw?

 

[boonedocks]

1,173 miles on my new S100D. Rated and ideal at 90%

 

[Frisco-Dad]

S85, Nov 2015 build date. Purchased "new" as an inventory car with 5000 miles in April 2016. After 1 year and 26k miles on the odometer , 90% at 237, 100% at 264 RM. Range mode off. It was 240 and 265 RM when "new" a year ago.

 

[jerry33]

The smaller the increment of charge, the more charges the battery can take, the increase is exponential. Only charging sometimes reduces the life of the battery. That's why Tesla recommends charging whenever possible.

For example (and these are not real numbers, only an example to give you the idea) a battery can take 300 full zero - 100% charges, 700 50% charges (e.g. 40% to 90%), 2500 30% charges, 10000, 25% charges, and so on, it should be clear that more smaller charges make for a longer battery life.

Running the battery down low and then doing a full charge doesn't actually recover any milage--it does help the algorithm set a zero point, so it may appear that miles are recovered--in other words, the capacity remains the same, but the display changes. Occasionally charging to greater than 93% does engage the balancing circuits, so that actually helps capacity. The current slider that we have was done because of regulations, not engineering.

 

[wcfinvader]

Sorry to hear that @wcfinvader ,,,

Didn't find a root cause, as they had a pack (remanufactured after all as I had expected it would have been) that they simply installed rather than the loaner/rebuild of mine as you describe.

The good news is that, although a reman, it's right in line with what my previous pack range was (I got 227 miles for a 90% charge this morning). And it's a "-D" revision pack.

Out of curiosity, what's the age/mileage for your pack at the time of failure? Also, did you have the rapidly reducing range like I saw?

I'm going to assume that it is the original pack. Look at my signature for the miles and age of the car. I cannot see signature on mobile for some reason but if you go to desktop view you'll see it.

Our battery had a major failure in Spring 2015 where the car wouldn't start or move. The problem with that ended up being a blown fuse in the main pack. They gave us a loaner pack at the time that I would guess we put around 10k miles on. I'd guess that we'd have about 90k miles on our original pack.

I was kind of hoping we'd get our original pack back just because we know it's been cared for unlike a refurbished battery. The reason I say this is because it seems that Tesla employees often will charge our car to 100% well before we'd pick it up. We dripped it off once on a Friday back when they had Saturday service hours and they fully charged it that night and we weren't going to pick it up till Monday.

If we aren't allowed the 100 kwh pack upgrade then I hope for ours back once they've fixed it. Only silver lining would be to get a new 85 kwh battery pack but I doubt they even make them anymore.

We had no range issues after the warning either. Weird thing about it was that we couldn't charge that night and it would say "charge complete" but my wife had arrived home with 33 rated miles and that next morning when I arrived home it had 75 rated miles. I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it charged to 80% full speed 80 amps. The warning didn't appear that morning and against the tech's advice I drove it Thursday night to work and back. It never gave any errors. Tesla picked it up Friday and gave us a loaner. When they got it there were no errors either. I should hear from them this week sometime. They were guessing that our loaner pack should be in on Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[scaesare]

Interesting. So, with your estimate of 10K miles on the loaner pack, that puts your original pack at just over 93K miles at the failure point.

Mine had just under (~92.7K)

-sc

 

[tinm]

View attachment 221950 View attachment 221951

1,173 miles on my new S100D. Rated and ideal at 90%

Amazing range on the 100D. And that house has over 12,000sqft?

 

[jerjozwik]

Amazing range on the 100D. And that house has over 12,000sqft?

18,000! guessing at least 2 floors. also, that is a nice lake.

 

[eye.surgeon]

It's amazing that there are 54 pages of responses to this thread, when the whole idea that the displayed range is accurate enough to extrapolate the health or capacity of the battery is completely false.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

It's amazing that there are 54 pages of responses to this thread, when the whole idea that the displayed range is accurate enough to extrapolate the health or capacity of the battery is completely false.

The health maybe not as much but capacity for sure. If you did any reading on wk057 thread you will find out tesla uses a simple formula to determine the rated miles and this correspond to the exact current capacity of the battery. While this number might be out of calibration, if the users did some low SOC to high SOC this calibrates the battery enough to determine its capacity using the rated miles.

 

[boonedocks]

13,500 sqft. Built it in 2008-09 and did everything conceivable at that time for energy efficiency. Drive my Tesla over 25,000 miles a year and my monthly electricity bill for the everything is $275 year round, and we keep it cold in the summer,
and our natural gas is $39 a month year round. Would really like solar but it would take two lifetimes for payback :-/

 

[eye.surgeon]

The health maybe not as much but capacity for sure. If you did any reading on wk057 thread you will find out tesla uses a simple formula to determine the rated miles and this correspond to the exact current capacity of the battery. While this number might be out of calibration, if the users did some low SOC to high SOC this calibrates the battery enough to determine its capacity using the rated miles.

You are correct in that the displayed rated miles only corresponds to the exact current capacity of the battery when it has been precisely calibrated, which in the real world is a non-existent state. It is a classic statistical error to claim precision in results that exceed the precision of the data used to calculate the results. I'm particularly bemused by claims of 1-2% battery degradation based on data that is accurate to, at best, perhaps +/- 5%.

Example: a thermometer that reads in increments of 5 degrees is used to measure ambient temperature twice. Once it reads 70 degrees and once it reads 75. It would be a mistake to use those two data points to declare the temperature to be 72.5 degrees. And yet that is precisely what people are doing with rated miles in regards to battery capacity.

 

[xyeahtony]

187 on my 60 haha.

 

[Mirlen]

13,500 sqft. Built it in 2008-09 and did everything conceivable at that time for energy efficiency. Drive my Tesla over 25,000 miles a year and my monthly electricity bill for the everything is $275 year round, and we keep it cold in the summer,
and our natural gas is $39 a month year round. Would really like solar but it would take two lifetimes for payback :-/

You could just do a small array and keep the costs down on the install, would offset much of your charging.

 

[Mirlen]

My 2017 75D usually gets about 228/229 miles at 90%.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

You are correct in that the displayed rated miles only corresponds to the exact current capacity of the battery when it has been precisely calibrated, which in the real world is a non-existent state. It is a classic statistical error to claim precision in results that exceed the precision of the data used to calculate the results. I'm particularly bemused by claims of 1-2% battery degradation based on data that is accurate to, at best, perhaps +/- 5%.

Example: a thermometer that reads in increments of 5 degrees is used to measure ambient temperature twice. Once it reads 70 degrees and once it reads 75. It would be a mistake to use those two data points to declare the temperature to be 72.5 degrees. And yet that is precisely what people are doing with rated miles in regards to battery capacity.

Well you are making claims without hard numbers. It might not be +/- 5%. It might be higher or lower. And your example does not fit this bill. We are not using a coarse meter to make claims. The precision is much higher than your example. Hence It is not a good analogy.

Though many who have reported here have not calibrated, those with higher than average degradation are calibrating and measuring. And they are verifying higher than average degradation. If this is true then they are precisely calibrated and getting worst than average... Unless you are saying this who did not calibrated might have higher rate of degradation than they are aware of. But then what about those like me who actually calibrate and do the test who has average rate of degradation?

I would argue this thread is relevant to show what people should be getting for what type and age and mileage for a particular battery. This is because tesla refuses to publish the correct numbers. Only they have thr exact statistics.

 

[JHawk]

228mi @ 90%

2013 P85, 51k miles, "B" battery

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Just a reminder that Tesla's advertised range is with Range Mode ON. If you are comparing your range with Tesla's advertised claims, please make sure you have Range Mode ON in order to be able to compare apples with apples.