What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?

[nguyentoogood]

I've always seen myself as a car enthusiast. I have a passion for cars, technology and driving. I currently own a Model S P85D and it's been great minus the weird quirks of Tesla service.


At the current moment I own a 1995 Acura NSX and honestly love driving that way more. Just the emotion and feel are outstanding. However, as a Daily Driver, the Tesla takes the cake. Also the general public loves asking questions on EVs and Teslas... So it's always fun educated people on them. I plan on keeping the car until the battery/drivetrain warranty runs out which is 2023~.

 

[vapor trail]

I've always seen myself as a car enthusiast. I have a passion for cars, technology and driving. I currently own a Model S P85D and it's been great minus the weird quirks of Tesla service.


At the current moment I own a 1995 Acura NSX and honestly love driving that way more. Just the emotion and feel are outstanding. However, as a Daily Driver, the Tesla takes the cake. Also the general public loves asking questions on EVs and Teslas... So it's always fun educated people on them. I plan on keeping the car until the battery/drivetrain warranty runs out which is 2023~.

I always thought the (original) NSX was an awesome design. Enjoy it!

 

[FlatSix911]

I never claimed they were cheaper to maintain than a tesla, I said 5k was way more than I have ever spent on maintenance.
Are you sure about that? Because their sales have been increasing steadily for the last 12 years.

BMW Group: car shipments 2023 | Statista

In 2023, the Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW) shipped over 2.55 million autos worldwide.

www.statista.com

Looks like you conveniently forgot to include 2020 for BMW... which happened to be another record year for Tesla.

 

[kizamybute']

I answered earlier in this thread that my current Tesla was likely my last. Short of a miracle and Tesla actually delivering on the Roadster sometime the next year, the Plaid+ Model S was about the only other thing on the Tesla horizon that "MAYBE" stood a chance at keeping me in the family. As I noted, the Model S basically looks the same as my first car 9 years ago. It's not that I don't like it, but I'm bored with it. Had hope for an all new version, but we only got a refresh with basically a Model 3 interior, which I hated. The 500 miles in range and performance at least kept the door slightly open for me to consider sticking with an S. Primarily, 500 miles in range was the only thing that really kept it open.

With the cancellation, I think my Tesla days are officially numbered. No desire to get another car with the same battery tech I already have, nor stare at the same looking car in my garage for the next several years. One or the other, MIGHT have been enough, but now with neither, plus not liking the interior being more Model 3 like, looks like the time has come for me to at least dip my toes into something new.

With this announcement, sadly, it likely means the Roadster is still way far off. Even if I could have gotten over the look of the CyberTruck, the only one I would have considered would have been the 500+ mile range version. This announcement likely impacts that version as well. That is IF the CyberTruck makes it to production any time in the next few years. The roadster was supposed to be in customers hands long before the Cybertruck was even announced.

Add the above to the fact, as others have said, Tesla couldn't given a crap whether I stay or go. They return calls until the second you take delivery, then ghost you. Customer Service has been declining for quite some time and just seems to get worse. I friend of mine bought his first a couple months ago. As with most, loves the car, already hates the company. I pray that the upcoming competition (new EV's that are actually competitive to Tesla) will force Tesla to change their ways, as a company. If they do, and if they produce something new and exciting, I'll certainly consider returning at that time.

One of the final straws that just eats at me was the news that Tesla plans to increase the price of FSD yet again, to $14,000, yet still hasn't delivered it to the buyers who paid for it years ago. Somehow, they're gotten really good at selling oceanfront property in Kansas. Sadly, I've fallen for it too, THREE TIMES!!

 

[Tony8489]

I voted "another EV' but it was a close call and ironically largely due to the fact that I expect to stick with my 2019 Raven S for at least 5 years and possibly for the battery/drivetrain warranty period.

My 2016 P90D was among the last cars eligible for the resale value guarantee. With emerging questions about the 90 battery plus the increased range and charging speed of the Raven S, that was an easy call to upgrade in 2019.

Both of my Model S cars have been essentially trouble free. Each had a minor squeak/rattle that was fixed in first two weeks of ownership. The S90D's front camera failed on a road trip and was replaced on a 3 hour pit stop in Rocklin. I live 3 miles from Burbank SC and go there in person if I have service questions.

We road trip much more than the average owner, 29% of charging of the S90D was on road trips and it's been 50% so far with the Raven. If I were forced to replace my car today it would 100% be with another Tesla primarily due to the supercharger network vs. the primitive and unreliable alternatives with other EV's.

However the 2019 transition from S100D to Raven S was nearly seamless and we got our Raven 10 days after we ordered it. The 5+ month and counting delay in producing the new Model S is unsettling by contrast. I'll reserve final judgment until I see it in person, but for now the change in screen, steering wheel and column stalks are negatives.

I think by the time we're looking to replace the Raven S, EV adoption will finally be climbing that new tech adoption S-curve we keep reading about. 5 years from now probably there will be another decent fast DC charging network in North America like Ionity already is in Europe. Product wise, with numerous new competitors, the odds are someone will hit the mark with the range/charging speed we want plus more luxury/quality than Tesla. Lucid might be there fairly soon.

 

[AMPd]

Looks like you conveniently forgot to include 2020 for BMW... which happened to be another record year for Tesla.

View attachment 671157

To be fair 2020 was not exactly a normal year in history.

and yes Tesla did have a record year but teslas success doesn’t have anything to do with bmw, the automobile pie is big enough for everyone. Tesla isn’t going to put bmw out of business anymore than Mercedes or Audi did before Tesla.
Plenty of automakers coexist and will continue to coexist.

 

[David_Cary]

Interesting thought. For years, I have been reading that some smaller manufacturers are going away. We have seen some mergers in that time period so that BMW is one of the smaller companies that still exists.
I know in most higher end neighborhoods in the country, there are an increasing number of Teslas and that has to come at someone's cost unless you believe that all the growth is just a lot more rich people. For years, people were nervous to switch - or didn't want to pay the $80-100k that it typically took.
ICE manufacturers will fail. BMW is one of the smallest - at least by my recollection.
Now BMW is making EVs but will they have enough battery factories to compete? That is the big question and I have no idea their access to capital. My understanding is they don't have the access that others do. Their trend line on pure EV sales is frankly horrible.

 

[SmartElectric]

the Plaid+ Model S...cancellation, I think my Tesla days are officially numbered. No desire to get another car with the same battery tech I already have

The refresh has an entirely new battery pack design (cooling, packaging, BMS boards, etc) with revised cell chemistry, and I would note, the chemistry has been changed over your existing S a few times and many times since my 2013 S. It's not the same "battery tech". The only thing believed to be the "same" is the 18650 metal container the cell is formed into.

Re: 500 mile range, that is indeed a game changer, and a compelling reason we have a Cybertruck tri motor reservation to replace our S.

Elon can claim 400 miles is enough for anyone, but when you have $100K to spend, 500 is a nice number, and puts a lot of peace of mind especially for those like us that want to tow travel trailers (which will cut range in half). For regular cars, 400 miles range seems like more than enough, I can't recall the last time range was an issue on road trips, and that's from an owner of a 2013 S which superchargers at 90kW max (still does today, just like it did new) with 253 miles range (95% of new).

 

[cduzz]

Interesting thought. For years, I have been reading that some smaller manufacturers are going away. We have seen some mergers in that time period so that BMW is one of the smaller companies that still exists.
I know in most higher end neighborhoods in the country, there are an increasing number of Teslas and that has to come at someone's cost unless you believe that all the growth is just a lot more rich people. For years, people were nervous to switch - or didn't want to pay the $80-100k that it typically took.
ICE manufacturers will fail. BMW is one of the smallest - at least by my recollection.
Now BMW is making EVs but will they have enough battery factories to compete? That is the big question and I have no idea their access to capital. My understanding is they don't have the access that others do. Their trend line on pure EV sales is frankly horrible.

I believe that BMW is going to evaporate in the next 10 years. They're a tiny company (relative to the requirements of the auto industry); in order to function as a company like that you need to be better than 80% correct in your bets about where the market's going in the next 5-15 years.

BMW doesn't seem to have that track record.

The Y is a dagger aimed right at the X5/Q5 products.

My wife *hates* my 90D -- she thinks it is too low, to cramped, too big, too flashy.

"Her" Q5 hybrid has some sort of coolant leak and she wasn't able to drive it to a meeting across town, so she took my car. I'm afraid I may not be keeping "my" car because she liked driving it too much.

Tesla has all but abandoned development of the S / X platform. It's not surprising that if you ask in an S forum how happy people are that their car's supposed to be the big dog on campus and is actually an afterthought.

The Y with the jumbo battery cells and the gigantic casting looks looks like a pretty fantastic car.

 

[pabla]

I believe that BMW is going to evaporate in the next 10 years. They're a tiny company (relative to the requirements of the auto industry); in order to function as a company like that you need to be better than 80% correct in your bets about where the market's going in the next 5-15 years.

BMW doesn't seem to have that track record.

The Y is a dagger aimed right at the X5/Q5 products.

My wife *hates* my 90D -- she thinks it is too low, to cramped, too big, too flashy.

"Her" Q5 hybrid has some sort of coolant leak and she wasn't able to drive it to a meeting across town, so she took my car. I'm afraid I may not be keeping "my" car because she liked driving it too much.

Tesla has all but abandoned development of the S / X platform. It's not surprising that if you ask in an S forum how happy people are that their car's supposed to be the big dog on campus and is actually an afterthought.

The Y with the jumbo battery cells and the gigantic casting looks looks like a pretty fantastic car.

So you are saying a large company like BMW is going to go bankrupt in 10 years simply because there's a new competitor in the market? FYI Y in size is more like the X3.

You think a car company will go out of business simply because your wife likes the S more than a Q5. With that thinking then I could say Tesla will go out of business because I enjoy driving my RS7 more than my S.

This is why these threads just result in a bunch of people arguing is because a lot of Tesla owners believe their cars are the best, and they can be the "best" for an individual but those owners also believe they are the best for everyone. Your wife may enjoy the sound of silence, may enjoy the large screen but another person's wife may enjoy luxury an engine sound and so on. Everyone has their own wants and needs, and simply because Tesla meets yours (our your wifes in this case) doesn't mean other brands won't prosper. Tesla has found its niche market, they have not taken over the car market and likely never will (neither will any single car brand).

The whole theme of this thread and others is my car is the best, but like I said it probably is the best car for you but other owners have other priorities and wants in a car. There can be multiple awesome cars in a segment people, there doesn't need to be one that rules them all.

 

[SmartElectric]

think a car company will go out of business simply because your wife likes the S more than a Q5. With that thinking then I could say Tesla will go out of business because I enjoy driving my RS7 more than my S

My wife won't even consider another brand than Tesla, and she's not a Musk fan, nor does she care about the company, just loves the product, and the charging network. She's also has an Apple iPhone, but is not a fan of Apple the company, nor it's business practices, she just loves the product. Failure to see the obvious, that Tesla makes products that normal people love, is failure to appreciate just how undesirable BMW and Mercedes products are once you get a taste of a well executed product. It's the eco-system that attracts people, the all-in-one solution, no assembly required (obviously I am speaking to the peerless supercharging network and integrated tech like maps and phone app that just works every time).

 

[pabla]

My wife won't even consider another brand than Tesla, and she's not a Musk fan, nor does she care about the company, just loves the product, and the charging network. She's also has an Apple iPhone, but is not a fan of Apple the company, nor it's business practices, she just loves the product. Failure to see the obvious, that Tesla makes products that normal people love, is failure to appreciate just how undesirable BMW and Mercedes products are once you get a taste of a well executed product. It's the eco-system that attracts people, the all-in-one solution, no assembly required (obviously I am speaking to the peerless supercharging network and integrated tech like maps and phone app that just works every time).

So what you are saying is if one person chooses another brand other than Tesla they made a wrong choice? Again to your eyes Tesla is the perfect brand for you and that's great but that doesn't mean its the perfect brand for the other millions of car buyers. To me Tesla isn't the perfect brand for me, hence why I express my dissatisfaction but I don't try to invalidate others opinion by saying they're wrong.

May I add, you bring up Mercedes and BMW being undesirable brands, and what are you basing that on? Your own experiences right, and those experiences may not have lived up to what you desired in a car brand. Tesla in this case does meet your desires and expectations which is great! Now lets flip the tables I have owned many Audi's in the past and own 2 as we speak, along with 1 2021 S. I can go ahead and say Tesla does not live up to all the hype and left me feeling unhappy, now I am in the same position as you to say that since I have owned both brands. So why do owners feel the need to invalidate my opinion on the brand or others?

 

[cduzz]

So you are saying a large company like BMW is going to go bankrupt in 10 years simply because there's a new competitor in the market? FYI Y in size is more like the X3.

You think a car company will go out of business simply because your wife likes the S more than a Q5. With that thinking then I could say Tesla will go out of business because I enjoy driving my RS7 more than my S.

This is why these threads just result in a bunch of people arguing is because a lot of Tesla owners believe their cars are the best, and they can be the "best" for an individual but those owners also believe they are the best for everyone. Your wife may enjoy the sound of silence, may enjoy the large screen but another person's wife may enjoy luxury an engine sound and so on. Everyone has their own wants and needs, and simply because Tesla meets yours (our your wifes in this case) doesn't mean other brands won't prosper. Tesla has found its niche market, they have not taken over the car market and likely never will (neither will any single car brand).

The whole theme of this thread and others is my car is the best, but like I said it probably is the best car for you but other owners have other priorities and wants in a car. There can be multiple awesome cars in a segment people, there doesn't need to be one that rules them all.

I'm saying that in a situation like BMW's where they're not the big fish, they don't have an enormous war chest and they don't have a diverse product portfolio, they need to make the right mixture of cars for the consumers consistently year in and year out. If they make the next generation 3 series and X5/3 series and they're chuggy stinkers that rot on the lot like last year's Genisys, they'll pretty quickly go the way of Packard, Hudson, NSU, Glas, DKW, Borgward, etc. The list of failed car companies is quite long.

If consumer sentiment turns against ICE cars, and it will because they're objectively terrible in every important metric other than "can dump stink juice into the stink tank in a 15 minute stink station trip and chug on for another 450 miles", BMW simply isn't in a position to stay solvent while retooling their whole manufacturing plant. And that's assuming they can find someone willing to sell them batteries enough to power their yearly sales target.

How did you go bankrupt? Slowly. Then quickly.

 

[pabla]

I'm saying that in a situation like BMW's where they're not the big fish, they don't have an enormous war chest and they don't have a diverse product portfolio, they need to make the right mixture of cars for the consumers consistently year in and year out. If they make the next generation 3 series and X5/3 series and they're chuggy stinkers that rot on the lot like last year's Genisys, they'll pretty quickly go the way of Packard, Hudson, NSU, Glas, DKW, Borgward, etc. The list of failed car companies is quite long.

If consumer sentiment turns against ICE cars, and it will because they're objectively terrible in every important metric other than "can dump stink juice into the stink tank in a 15 minute stink station trip and chug on for another 450 miles", BMW simply isn't in a position to stay solvent while retooling their whole manufacturing plant. And that's assuming they can find someone willing to sell them batteries enough to power their yearly sales target.

How did you go bankrupt? Slowly. Then quickly.

BMW just unveiled 2 really good EVs the ix and the 4 series electric (can't remember the exact name). I will agree with you on the fact that if legacy automakers don't start taking EVs seriously their fate may be doomed. However almost all the big brands have electric cars and platforms coming.

However, ICE cars will not be going anywhere for a few years so the cars that BMW currently sells will continue to sell exceptionally well. I don't expect any less from their EVs

 

[SmartElectric]

So what you are saying is if one person chooses another brand other than Tesla they made a wrong choice? Again to your eyes Tesla is the perfect brand for you and that's great but that doesn't mean its the perfect brand for the other millions of car buyers.

I own a non-Tesla EV from Daimler, and it's objectively crap in EV tech, but fun to drive and simple to own and run. I would easily buy a non Tesla, have a Ford F150 Lightning reservation.

My wife, she wouldn't get a non Tesla. And she's not the fanboi I am. She's a premium car owner of many brands, Porsche, Mercedes and as I said, wouldn't consider a non Tesla for her car. I would happily buy a non Tesla, which I have, but I am an expert user and can deal with stupid, hard to use, complex vehicles and charging systems.

My point : Almost all of the people posting on this thread are car geeks like you and me, lots of patience and open to new tech, thus our EV purchases, but there are millions of people like my wife who just want the most sensible Apple like experience for their driving. That is a Tesla right now.

 

[tybah]

I have a love/hate relationship with my Tesla. When everything functioned properly, I loved it. When I started having problems that I now know were related to the mcu, I wasn’t upset. I have had the car since 2017 (32k miles) and I don’t know of any car that has no problems after 4 years. What began the steady decline in my love for Tesla was how they handle things when there is a problem and their lack of communication when they know of an issue. I have spent way too much time at the service center and been frustrating with their inability to identify and fix things that don’t work properly. I was frankly shocked that they refused to do the recall work on my car until it completely failed, leaving me driving a car that is dangerous to drive at times when important things won’t work. I finally paid to get the Infotainment upgrade since they told me that would fix the problems - however, some of the features don’t work -which they knew when they sold me the upgrade -and they don’t know when there will be a firmware update to fix it. I have also been disappointed in the lack of customer service. It may be just me, but when I spend over $100k for a vehicle, I expect to be treated a little better - I have picked up my car from the service center filthy and covered in water spots from being parked next to their sprinklers, been giving loaners that are junk (one with loud, grinding brakes, one that smelled horrible, etc). Oh and just try to get someone from Tesla on the phone .

Having said all that, if they improved their customer service and were more willing to communicate regarding known issues (and actually be willing to fix them0, I would absolutely buy another Tesla. With the other EVs coming out though, I will be looking at other option….like that Hummer.

 

[tybah]

I have a love/hate relationship with my Tesla. When everything functioned properly, I loved it. When I started having problems that I now know were related to the mcu, I wasn’t upset. I have had the car since 2017 (32k miles) and I don’t know of any car that has no problems after 4 years. What began the steady decline in my love for Tesla was how they handle things when there is a problem and their lack of communication when they know of an issue. I have spent way too much time at the service center and been frustrating with their inability to identify and fix things that don’t work properly. I was frankly shocked that they refused to do the recall work on my car until it completely failed, leaving me driving a car that is dangerous to drive at times when important things won’t work. I finally paid to get the Infotainment upgrade since they told me that would fix the problems - however, some of the features don’t work -which they knew when they sold me the upgrade -and they don’t know when there will be a firmware update to fix it. I have also been disappointed in the lack of customer service. It may be just me, but when I spend over $100k for a vehicle, I expect to be treated a little better - I have picked up my car from the service center filthy and covered in water spots from being parked next to their sprinklers, been giving loaners that are junk (one with loud, grinding brakes, one that smelled horrible, etc). Oh and just try to get someone from Tesla on the phone .

Having said all that, if they improved their customer service and were more willing to communicate regarding known issues (and actually be willing to fix them0, I would absolutely buy another Tesla. With the other EVs coming out though, I will be looking at other option….like that Hummer.

 

[cduzz]

View attachment 671593

If you cross your eyes exactly correctly you can see a picture of SN15 landing on the moon.

 

[Watts_Up]

If you cross your eyes exactly correctly you can see a picture of SN15 landing on the moon.

If I squint my eyes I can see four Starship ready to take off !!!

 

[kizamybute']

The refresh has an entirely new battery pack design (cooling, packaging, BMS boards, etc) with revised cell chemistry, and I would note, the chemistry has been changed over your existing S a few times and many times since my 2013 S. It's not the same "battery tech". The only thing believed to be the "same" is the 18650 metal container the cell is formed into.

Re: 500 mile range, that is indeed a game changer, and a compelling reason we have a Cybertruck tri motor reservation to replace our S.

I do currently have a Raven S. Have had several Model S's already. To Tesla's credit, yes, the Model S todays is absolutely a better car than the 2012 was and most in between. But, still looks almost exactly the same as my 2012 did.

I was in a similar boat to another poster above. Wasn't going to upgrade from my 2017. The thing that got me to do it was when they dropped the price by $10,000 overnight in 2019. At that point, I made the plunge and upgraded. The suspension was a big upgrade. But, the rest of it basically felt identical. My car "says" I'll get 360+ miles per charge. But Tesla has always been one to state range based on the best possible scenario (downhill with a tailwind, LOL). It appears that most others are stating range based on more realistic driving conditions. Plus, they adjust the range figure to your driving style. So when the car says 200 miles in range, you likely will get it. In the Tesla, I've never come close to 300 miles, let alone 360+. Not a knock on them, that's how they choose to market the car. That's fine. Just like they still reflect prices after government kickbacks (for those that qualify). I prefer the adjusted range figure to my driving as it's much more useful than a number that, for me and my driving style and conditions I drive under, is meaningless other than to show how much percentage of the battery I have left.

Anyway, the new Plaid is what, $130,000 now? Before adding FSD or anything else. Last year, with the $10,000 price reduction, plus the $10,000 Ludicrous option now included at no cost, a Performance version was right at $100,000 all inclusive. Now, add in $10,000 for FSD and you're pushing $40,000 more. Just can see $40,000 more in car. Sure, it's improved, but at $140,000, the Audi GT is looking pretty nice. States a much lower range, but the sister car, the Taycan has had owner's reporting that real world range far exceeds stated EPA range. At over $100K, I need to see something completely new and exciting in the garage. The Refreshed Tesla S unfortunately, doesn't get me there. I'm 100% certain, the price will drop on it after a couple of years.