What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?

[Needsdecaf]

have one tesla, always wanted another until they continued to screw over their owner base in favor of selling more cars. At this point im not sure i want to be an early adopter of another EV, so ill likely return to ICE. especially considering i barely drive anywhere anymore. The service and sales experience on our Cayenne was top notch, and we've maybe filled the tank 10 times in 2 years.

Taycan Cross Tourismo baby!

 

[Needsdecaf]

I forgot to mention that there's another factor that weighs on me-- particularly this week:

When I bought my car, I did so mainly because I thought it was a "Model T" moment; a chance to be among the first to experience something revolutionary and vote with my dollars to ensure it took hold, for variety of reasons and enjoy "pioneering" and introducing people to this new-fangled bizarre thing. The ownership community was enthusiastic but still humble since Superchargers and Autopilot were in their infancy and not available yet-- especially in my area. I started a blog, I wrote for Teslarati now and then, and I did a few videos-- Not nearly enough, apparently, as I left a lot of money on the table... but I'm a video editor by trade and doing video in my off-hours was/is not an appealing use of my R&R time! But I digress... The people I met were eager to learn about the cars and the we received a lot of joy by sharing our experiences with others and being approachable.

Since then, the ownership community has been hijacked (IMO) by the YouTuber/fanbois who pimped their referral codes to strangers, refused to EVER concede on ANY point that was negative about the cars/company and would shout down even the most documented and valid criticism. They were rewarded and enriched for this, with their "Adsence dollars" and free referral Roadsters (allegedly "coming soon"). The smugness, condescending attitudes and outright GLOATING about things like the current gas pipeline news combined with a really cult-like fanaticism over FSD/Robotaxis and other cringe-inducing behaviors like the backseat "Lavish lifestyle" dude arrested this week.... Get a grip, people... have you ZERO self-awareness?? This is your aspirational pitch to grow the brand??

And don't forget all the TSLA v TSLAQ fighting that gets all nutty with "FUD" accusations thrown about like they're the deepest insult on your character when you simply relayed a fact or experience. I've been accounted on both sides as an enemy at various times, causing me much frustration as I value my personal integrity.

ANYWAY:
I am, frankly, very embarrassed to be associated-- even by proxy-- with many of my fellow Tesla owners as a result. Reputation of the community is a HUGE part of how car purchases are made as we easily become self-identified with that community and judged by our purchase decisions; what will people assume based on what you drive? How will you be treated in traffic or parking lots?
Teslas now come with a lot more unwanted baggage than they did in 2014.

Fortunately, this toxicity does not appear to be common in my area, based on my interactions as local FB group admin. I do have to debunk a few myths now and then and/or reinforce some objectivity and humility with (typically) newer owners still in their honeymoon phase... but I hope by doing so I can revert the tone back to what it was before. I wish others would do the same.

We're the veterans. We're supposed to be voice of reason/rationality/perspective in the face of ignorant or irrational exuberance.
I wish there were more viable alternatives to spark greater humility and a broadening of the demographics through competitive pressure, though that does risk binary us/them rivalries.... so maybe it'd be worse?

I guess I'm just dismayed that 7 years later the best replacement for my car remains: my car... and seeing my fellow owners online has become more and more like an awkward family Thanksgiving that I wish I had a better excuse for not attending.

This post resonates hard with me. I find that taking a step away from the interwebs helps tremendously. As you say, you don't see this kind of behavior largely in person. It seems mainly contained to the internet.

And I have to agree, the toxicity of the Tesla.com forums were some of the WORST that I have ever experienced. I've been a member of forums since 2004 (yikes!), all automotive. Some cheap cars, some expensive. You always have a pretty reliable group of evangilists, haters, apologists, casual fans, etc. But the Tesla forum was like no other. If they so much as sniffed a criticism, BOOM, your're a FUDster. You're a hater. You don't understand how it works. You don't understand the mission. Etc.

I see way too much Elon worship going on. IMO, he is really starting to get deeper into some unethical crap as he continues to pump the FSD pedal. His forcing his way back into the factory during the COVID shutdown was pretty horrific, IMO. He had a bit of a point but clearly was doing it to try to save the quarter. And to me, his response to some of the FSD City Streets Beta videos, or in many cases lack of response, is telling. He doesn't care if people are mis-using the feature a long as it doesn't shine a bad spotlight on the company. I've yet to see him condemn this jackass who has been apparently regularly filming himself in the backseat of his Model 3 and bragging about it on the internet. IMO, if you're not going to come out and publicly decry that kind of buffoonery, then you are implicitly approving it.

But yeah, I bought my Model 3 in 2018 despite knowing all of this because I thought the product was worth it. Now that we're going be seeing a flood of excellent EV's on the market soon, and Tesla seems to be headed down one path of pumping FSD uber alles? Nah, I'm pretty much done with the scene. I'll continue to own my Model 3 for some time but almost certainly exit the circus tent at some time, with only a little regret.

 

[SilverGS]

I’m somewhere in between. I do like my car - it’s been pretty reliable and I still love looking at it and driving it.

I’ve also given up on the FSD snake oil and have significantly less trust in the company today than I did 5 years ago. I’ll never again buy a Tesla based on the promise of any future features or capabilities, and will always have a little fear that even the stuff I DID pay for will disappear or degrade with the next software update or whim of the technoking.

I’m a permanent EV convert but will give the whole market a good hard look in a few years when it’s time for something new. Maybe that will mean another Tesla, but increasingly I think maybe not.

Exactly the same scenario with me. Very reliable and its so much fun driving it. I don't even think about FSD nor do I have any desire for it. AP1 is perfectly adequate for my needs

Once the road tripping charging infrastructure gets better and other brands are more competitive in price compared to a Tesla on range and price, then I may consider another brand. Right now I wouldn't as any comparable car is too expensive/small/not enough range compared to a Model S. Specifically referring to the Audi E tron GT, Taycan 4S etc.

 

[OkayThen]

Curious what the sentiments are out there. I have to admit, as problems with my 2019 Performance Raven continue to go unfixed (eg, front half shaft "death rattle"), as I grow more and more skeptical of ever seeing anything close to FSD and as the competition matures from other, more traditional car manufacturers, I've gone from "Tesla for life!" to "Hmm, I think I'll have to look around" when it comes to my next car. I'm not replacing current car for many years to come, but I'm growing disenfranchised with Tesla as time passes, which is sort of a bummer.

Well said.

Our Model S was pretty reliable, but as things have cropped up the service has declined so much that it's hard to recommend. Just a few examples, we've had the eMMC failure we paid to fix out-of-pocket, we're on our *4th* service visit to get the driver's door handle replaced correctly, etc. etc.

Our Model 3 was a nightmare from the beginning, with defects from day one and service mishandled from the beginning. Our service center says we "shouldn't expect everything to work," and I don't remember the last time we drove it where *everything* worked.

So...if Tesla was more dedicated to solving problems and making customers whole (as they were when we first bought the Model S), these would not be a big deal. But they're not even making much of an effort in our case.

They're potentially great cars from a company that doesn't care about its customers. Perhaps when there is more serious competition, they will take quality and service seriously. Right now they remind me a lot of General Motors in the late 1970s, in terms of quality and service.

Would we love another Tesla that worked as claimed and was well-supported? Absolutely.

Do we trust Tesla to make things right if we have an issue? Absolutely *not*.

 

[OkayThen]

My 2020 Performance is my second Model 3 (first totaled). It will almost certainly be my last Tesla.

As they have transitioned to a much larger company, customer service is in the toilet. Unfortunately I have had to deal with issues and Telsa has been less than stellar to deal with.

Second reason is that as I'm getting more miles on these cars, I'm becoming more annoyed with build quality. The squeaks and rattles get worse daily. Things get looser. The rattly sound when I close the door gets more annoying.

But I feel like the biggest reason related to Tesla only is that Tesla seems to have given up on improving the car. I feel like the huge "double fire" Christmas update that was more like a dumpster fire took all the wind out of their sails. And I feel like they are concentrating on FSD which to me is now a fool's errand. Clearly they are finally coming to grips with how difficult L3/L4/L5 really is. And the harder they work on it seemingly the more resources are diverted from the "features addition" team. When I bought my first Model 3 at the end of 2018, until the end of 2020, the amount of features added was staggering. Video players, video games, more streaming services, acceleration boosts, smart summon, Joe Mode, TeslaCam, and on and on. Really, there was huge value to that. Since Christmas 2020? NOTHING.

Finally, there is the competition to discuss. There is still nothing like the performance of a Model 3 dual motor for the cost. There just isn't. But now, there are way more compelling EV's out there. I like the looks of the Mustang a LOT. The Etron GT is drop dead gorgeous. The Taycan Cross Tourismo; an EV wagon? Sign me UP! The Merc EQS looks like it will absolutely PANTS a Model S in every way except outright performance, and seemingly for similar cost. The iD4 is a compelling lower cost entry as well. And the Huyndai Ioniq 5. God damn that thing looks like an 80's Lancia rally car reincarnated 40 years later. WOOF. And don't get me started on the Rivian R1T. If that thing becomes real, I might leg hump it. LOL. The Polestar looks pretty tasty too.

So yeah, this will almost certainly be my last Tesla. Sadly, because I really root for them. I'm so glad to see they are succeeding, but I feel like the house of cards that is FSD is slowly draining all the life out of the company. I really wish, honestly, that they had never gone down that route. They have hitched their wagon to that horse but I don't think they ever needed to. We would have bought the cars anyway with just EAP. I did, and I was super happy! While people on here really think it's cool I think of those half a million cars they sold last year, less than 100k of the owners probably cared about FSD. Is there data on the take rate?

Anyway, rambling rant over. I'll keep driving my Model 3 for now but I'm already mentally shopping it's replacement. The kids will miss the YouTube and the Farts, and I'll miss the Supercharging network on longer drives. But that's not enough to keep me around.

Couldn't agree with you more.

It's a little irritating to get a software update with a new "entertainment" feature while long-standing bugs go unfixed, or there's a regression where something that *used* to work now doesn't.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Couldn't agree with you more.

It's a little irritating to get a software update with a new "entertainment" feature while long-standing bugs go unfixed, or there's a regression where something that *used* to work now doesn't.

Well, the Taycan forums are littered with stories of their first major software update. Which required the car to be brought in and each individual module programmed in a precise sequence, requiring the use of one of the diagnostic computers for over an entire day. If you did it wrong, at best you had to start again and at worst you could brick one of the control modules, which required physical replacement and has kept some cars down for weeks.

All for an update who's best features seem to be better control of wireless carplay and the like.

So at least Tesla has that going for it.

 

[OkayThen]

Well, the Taycan forums are littered with stories of their first major software update. Which required the car to be brought in and each individual module programmed in a precise sequence, requiring the use of one of the diagnostic computers for over an entire day. If you did it wrong, at best you had to start again and at worst you could brick one of the control modules, which required physical replacement and has kept some cars down for weeks.

All for an update who's best features seem to be better control of wireless carplay and the like.

So at least Tesla has that going for it.

True!

My service center likes to have us make an appointment to bring the car in, once there they tell us "there's newer software available, so we are not going to diagnose the problem you've reported." When you get the new software installed, if the problem recurs, schedule a new appointment.

Interesting how there was no update available *in* my car until *after* the service appointment. Seems...suspicious.

So: Tesla's software updates may not fix the problems, but at least they don't brick the car completely!

 

[JVINFL]

I see just a few negative about their experience with Tesla. I moved from a 2017 Dodge Charger R/T with 91K miles to a 2021 M3 LR. Received the car 2 weeks after ordering, delivery was flawless as was the car and the delivery process took 45 minutes, not the normal 3 - 5 hours of a conventional car purchase. I took delivery on Dec 18, 2020 and as of this post have 12,914 miles on the car. Other than filling the washer fluid and rotating the tires, all has been perfect without one issue. The car has not missed a beat. I purchased the Homelink module and the home service for the install was quick, the young man was professional and very courteous. From my experience I'd recommend a Tesla to a friend.

 

[Kandiru]

Ioniq5 is a total killer and I am in much love, but the non-Tesla Level 3 network in the Midwest outside large urban areas is a total disaster, 50% or less success rate with my ChadeMo adapter, mainly defective stations, torn cabling, or unsafe places to charge at night (end of lot ghetto Walmart with gunshots in distance).

Likely I will get a Model 3, my kids will be in college no need for the big boat anymore.

 

[Wol747]

>>For now, I wouldn't consider anything but a Tesla entirely because of the supercharger network.<<

That’s the killer, for the present at least.
If Tesla is preparing to open the charging network to all comers it will degrade the appeal for ever. There’s no doubt that setting it up was a huge cost, but the way it operates is light years ahead of the competition especially outside the US.

 

[dipper]

Customer Service is very important to me. When I got my MS, Tesla knew what it meant. It is in the toilet today.

Example. Today. Best Buy screwed up my appliance order twice. Talked to store manager. He apologized and took care of me. They kept me as a customer.

Tesla used to be like that. Now, they literally tells you they don't care about you. They used to give stuff to apologize for their mistakes.

I am eyeing on Rivian. If they care about customers like I think they will. They might get my business. I am eyeing on Ioniq 5 too, as for style... Not sure about customer service though.

 

[DavidB]

The supercharger network is the only reason I wouldn't even bother looking at other EVs, and a gas car is out of the question. I love long distance roadtrips, and no other charging network holds up to the Tesla superchargers!

 

[Sbaimo]

No Loyalty to Tesla at all. I hate this company and the way they treat their customers. I understand I only put 100 bucks down to order the S in December, but I expected delivery by mid February as was promised by my SA and made arrangements expecting to have my car as I was told. I had no idea that Tesla was BSing me But for now, they are really the only EV maker that works for me.
Next EV will be from some other company assuming other they have caught up to Tesla

 

[BigNick]

I just Googled Ioniq5, it's hideous. Looks like it has the mark of Zorro on it.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I just Googled Ioniq5, it's hideous. Looks like it has the mark of Zorro on it.

To each their own. I think it's stunning. Very 80's hot hatch / rally car.

 

[BigNick]

To each their own. I think it's stunning. Very 80's hot hatch / rally car.

Taste is highly subjective. The Cybertruck design proves that.

 

[Barry]

Interesting that the rebuy rate is down to 55% in the poll at the top of the page. Quite a difference from the 95% of a 3-4 years ago. How come Mr. Genius remains oblivious to this?

 

[cduzz]

Interesting that the rebuy rate is down to 55% in the poll at the top of the page. Quite a difference from the 95% of a 3-4 years ago. How come Mr. Genius remains oblivious to this?

His one goal is to be able to make a gazillion batteries and shove them into everything that currently uses energy to do things.

His roadmap was roughly:

1. Sell a weird niche sports car to start developing battery technology;
   1. people who buy those are chumps who will spend lots of money to be abused.
   2. people who buy those don't mind if their toy breaks all the time.
2. Sell a nice luxury car to perfect the battery technology; people who buy those are chumps who will spend lots of money.
   1. you can sell these at a huge mark up
   2. you get emissions credits that you can sell on
   3. you can base much of the non-battery parts of the initial version of the platform on partner's cars (mercedes)
3. use 1 and 2 to valdiate designs so you're sure you can make a gazillion batteries that will probably last the warranty period (and not explode)
4. Make a higher volume lower profit model and do all of the work in house to manage fast iteration and capture more of the profits
   1. name it after the best car made by the company you're hoping to completely displace
   2. make sure it still gets a penis joke in there somewhere
   3. focus 99% of your energies on the end-to-end manufacturing problem
5. Make a version of 4 that gets you the "I've given up so I'm buying a CRV" market.
   1. fix all the mistakes you made in the "M3"

Each step massively increases volume and reduces the amount of attention you need to pay to customer service.


So -- if you're going after the CRV market, you don't need anything better than the toyota dealership experience.

I personally think this is a mistake. Other car companies have different product lines for different market segments. A "Maxwell" model 2/ 3 / Y without loaners and where you only talk to an app vs a "Tesla" Model S / X / roadster where you get a latte at the service center and where you have a concierge who can look up your birthday or your wife's dog's name in the CRM may be how an MBA would solve the problem.

Musk just want to build tons of batteries (and sell them in things at 4-8x cost) and not be distracted by (hand wave) all that other stuff.

 

[TexLaw]

I've had my P 90 D for a little more than 4 years, and I'm something of a coin flip at the moment. The tl;dr is that I love the car but can hardly stand the company. Hopefully (knock on wood), I won't have to worry about it for at least a couple or few years, as I would very much like to keep this car for at least that long. If I were buying today, I most likely would get something other than a Tesla. In any case, Tesla holds no advantage with me simply because I own one now, and that's largely because of issues with build quality and service.

In favor-- It's a fantastic car. It's by far my favorite car. I love driving it, and we meshed pretty much from the get-go. It feels and drives like an extension of myself. I not only like the way it drives, but I also like the way it looks. Now that I have the MCU upgrade, I love the way the tech works inside. It has all the space I need (and more). It's virtually maintenance-free, and you can't beat the idea of periodic updates. The current supercharging network is the best, but that most likely will change sooner than later for one reason or another.

Against-- I'll never understand the form-over-function choices Tesla makes (such as no side door pockets, nearly EVERYTHING controlled through the screen, no laundry hooks or place to put them, no more sunroof, lack of various virtually "standard" luxury features, etc.). Tesla keeps acting like true FSD is right around the corner even though it's essentially still vaporware at this point. It's like a Frank Lloyd Wright home--beautiful to look at, inside and out, but not particularly designed to live in. Service is abhorrent (the system much more so than the people--many of the people are wonderful, but the system holds them back tremendously). The company consistently overpromises and underdelivers. While I had no issues with build quality (again, knock on wood), the fact that so many others do is a big strike against Tesla.

Fortunately, Tesla finally seems like it wants to finally (again) provide good service, so I would like to think that will improve, but it ain't there--not by a long shot. It used to be fantastic and a real asset, but it's now so much of a liability that it's reason enough for me to get something else if I were buying now and see what happens with Tesla in the future.

Another current factor that is (sort of) against Tesla is that Tesla does not currently offer what I likely will be looking for in my next car. I do not expect to want or need anything as large as the MS or MY, but I will want and need something larger than the Roadster. However, I still want the "luxury" or even "standard" features for a car (such as an instrument cluster in front of me), so the current M3 and MY aren't real choices. They are great cars, but they are too stripped down for my tastes. If Tesla were to come out with a mid-sized sedan or crossover trimmed out like the MS/MX, I could be all over that. Unfortunately, Elon seems much more concerned with the novelty truck than anything else. The I-Pace and Taycan still have a little ways to go, but they could easily be viable choices soon.

And I want my sunroof.

So, I am fairly confident that I would consider Tesla in a few years (assuming they get service straightened out), but they likely won't have any advantage with me.

 

[SmartElectric]

Elon seems much more concerned with the novelty truck than anything else

I hope so. The Cybertruck is the upgrade we're anticipating will replace our 2013 Model S. Just yesterday I went to the sawmill and loaded up 12' pine siding, no problem for the old girl, but would have been more convenient in a truck. People still gawk when we put dozens of plants in the S frunk and truck in the spring at the garden center. Our Tesla is well used, and still awesome.