Wheel Bolt Pattern?

[bonehead]

For those getting aftermarket tires/rims, anyone considering a staggered setup (i.e. 245/40/20's in the front and 265/40/20's in the rear) similar to the setup in this review below?

Porsche Panamera GTS vs. Tesla Model S Track Test

 

[alset]

Be aware that a staggered setup with wider at the rear adds understeer. That may not be the behavior you're looking for, but to each their own. Unclear on how tail happy the Tesla S is in various conditions but I'm guessing pretty conservative already with lots of electronic nannies.

 

[bonehead]

hmm...good to know. I thought it would be a viable option since that was the setup on the track test.

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hmm...good to know. I thought it would be a viable option since that was the setup on the track test.

 

[Doug_G]

For those getting aftermarket tires/rims, anyone considering a staggered setup (i.e. 245/40/20's in the front and 265/40/20's in the rear) similar to the setup in this review below?

You could probably fit the 265 on the same rim as the 245 - rims always accommodate a range of tire sizes.

 

[nrcooled]

I just got word back that the stock Model S wheels are hub-centric (from my Tesla POC). Most of the aftermarket wheels that you will get will be lug-centric. You can use a lug-centric wheel on a previously hub-centric setup (This is from me). I've done it on a few cars now and as long as you center the aftermarket wheel properly on the lugs and torque them appropriately they work fine.

Looks like I am ready to order my wheels for the Model S! I plan to do a custom setup of 20x9 front at +30 with 235/35/20 and 20x9 rear at +25 with 245/35/20. It should give me a very neutral handling car that can be rotated under braking.

 

[bonehead]

cool. thanks for the info, Doug_G.

nrcooled, nice! regarding your setup, what's the 20x9 mean, as well as the +30? does that have to do with lug pattern,offset, etc?

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looks like Elon has a staggered setup...

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10339-Performance-Plus-Upgrade

 

[jerry33]

You could probably fit the 265 on the same rim as the 245 - rims always accommodate a range of tire sizes.

You can, but it won't be optimal. Rim width should be the same as tread width.

 

[Doug_G]

You can, but it won't be optimal. Rim width should be the same as tread width.

If you look at the tire specifications, they always quote a range of acceptable rim widths. Yes being right in the middle is "ideal", but it will work fine with no issues as long as you are within spec. Also you'll often find that tires from different manufacturers with nominally the same size actually quote different ranges of rim widths. Check the tire specs.

 

[jerry33]

If you look at the tire specifications, they always quote a range of acceptable rim widths. Yes being right in the middle is "ideal", but it will work fine with no issues as long as you are within spec.

It will work with no issues--won't fall apart--but handling and/or ride comfort will be not as good on some rim widths within the range. Note that the best rim width for a specific tire may not be the middle one.

Also you'll often find that tires from different manufacturers with nominally the same size actually quote different ranges of rim widths. Check the tire specs.

That is correct. The reason for this tends to be one of economy for the manufacturer. That is, if they don't have enough demand for a particular size, rather than make a new mold they use another size tire, change the mold markings, and mount it on a wider/narrower rim to get it within TRA/ETRTO/JTRTO specs. This makes that tire have a different rim width range than the tires from a manufacturer who went to the expense of making a mold for that tire size.

In addition, some tires of the same nominal size will have a wider tread compared to others and so are designed to use a wider (or narrower) rim width.

 

[Ceilidh]

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but a forum search came up empty on this for me. I have contacted Tesla and they do not sell wheel locks at this time. I checked with Gorilla, and they have never even heard of a Tesla (yikes!).

So has anybody been successful in locating wheel locks for the Model S wheels? I'm only getting the 19" version but I would assume those with the 21" wheels would be interested in protecting their investment.

Thanks for any replies. I don't mean to hijack the thread but it seems related.

Cheers.

 

[jerry33]

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but a forum search came up empty on this for me. I have contacted Tesla and they do not sell wheel locks at this time. I checked with Gorilla, and they have never even heard of a Tesla (yikes!).

So has anybody been successful in locating wheel locks for the Model S wheels? I'm only getting the 19" version but I would assume those with the 21" wheels would be interested in protecting their investment.

It's not like Tesla cuts their own studs and nuts to some weird non-standard thread pitch. You just need to have the locking nuts match the wheel nuts. BMW wheels have been reported to be the same so you might check those out. Note that locking nuts might stop the high school kids from stealing the wheels but they only slow the professional car thief down about ten seconds.

 

[Ceilidh]

I actually called Gorilla with the specs on the bolts/nuts as given to me by my Tesla rep. The answer from 2 different companies was: we have never heard of a bolt like that. No we don't make wheel locks in that size. If anyone knows of a company that does, please let me know.

Cheers.

 

[wycolo]

> Just divide the RPM of the candidate tire by the RPM of the OE tire and come up with a percentage. It shouldn't be more than 2% higher or 5% lower. [jerry33]

But it would be nicer if Tesla would provide the actual rev/mile spec for their cars.
--

-- from a MCD's somewhere in NC --

 

[jerry33]

> But it would be nicer if Tesla would provide the actual rev/mile spec for their cars.

Of course, but based on the Roadster threads, Tesla's position has always been "Use the tires/wheels that we have certified". I believe that's kind of a lawyer thing. Giving out the specs could be seen as an acknowledgement that it's okay to use something other than what Tesla provides. It's too bad that the U.S. is a sue first and think about the consequences later country, but that's reality. You'd need massive tort reforms to fix it.

The Founding Fathers had it right when they didn't allow lawyers to run for office because a lawyer, as an officer of the court, was considered to have a conflict of interest. (The people that enforce the laws shouldn't have a hand in making them because they will likely use them to their own advantage.) However, a few years before the Civil War, that law got changed and the U.S. has been going downhill ever since.

 

[artsci]

It's not like Tesla cuts their own studs and nuts to some weird non-standard thread pitch. You just need to have the locking nuts match the wheel nuts. BMW wheels have been reported to be the same so you might check those out. Note that locking nuts might stop the high school kids from stealing the wheels but they only slow the professional car thief down about ten seconds.

I'm visiting the Tesla Store in Menlo Park again next week when I'm back in CA and I'm taking with me a number of special tools that will enable me to precisely measure the bolt pattern and dimensions, the pitch on the wheel bolts, and the hub diameter. I'll post the results when I have them, likely the 18th or 19th next week. If anyone already knows these dimensions, please post them.

 

[bonehead]

great. thanks! it will help us folks that are considering aftermarket wheels and tires!

 

[nrcooled]

Sorry for the late reply to break down the numbers:

20 is the wheel diameter
9 is the wheel width
+30 (or +25) is the wheel offset in mm (The offset of a wheel is the distance from its hub mounting surface to the centerline of the wheel)
Offset does adjust the handling behavior of the car and also changes the look of the car. I typically like lower offset wheels (of course depending on application and fitment) due to it giving the car a more aggressive look along with a bit more stability mid-corner.
Disclaimer: This is not the ideal fitment for wheels but one which I am willing to sacrifice some function for form.

cool. thanks for the info, Doug_G.

nrcooled, nice! regarding your setup, what's the 20x9 mean, as well as the +30? does that have to do with lug pattern,offset, etc?

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looks like Elon has a staggered setup...

Performance Plus Upgrade?

 

[wycolo]

> break down the numbers [nrcooled]

These are not the figures that others have previously posted here & the ones I'm working with. So where did you derive each one??

1. Revs/mile since not provided by TM must be calculated by math from tire (inflated) circumference. If the TStore has a loose tire/rim use your tape. Then derate for weight on tire. Probably be easier & more accurate to use industry data for tire size, which is what I did.

2. Offset posted here is +40mm, so where did you get your figures?? BMW using identical 5x120 has 42+mm offset, presumably with similar calipers.

3. BMW center bore is 72.56mm, but you just need to clear that (hub-centric is for sissies). If ModelS has a bigger hub we can just machine it out. But 72.56mm is among the largest center holes used.
--

 

[jerry33]

1. Revs/mile since not provided by TM must be calculated by math from tire (inflated) circumference. If the TStore has a loose tire/rim use your tape. Then derate for weight on tire. Probably be easier & more accurate to use industry data for tire size, which is what I did.

Incorrect. The RPM cannot be calculated (accurately) from the circumference of the tire. You need to find the tire manufacturer's spec sheet to get the right number.

 

[NJS1207]

Tirerack.com now dispalys many 19" and 20" wheel options for the Model S:

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=All&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=All&filterWeight=All&autoMake=Tesla&autoModel=Model+S&autoYear=2012&autoModClar=&sort=Brand&filterNew=All&filterSpecial=false

I have no experience with aftermarket wheels, though. Does anyone know if you can trust that Tirerack.com has the correct bolt pattern/offset?

Incidentally, I was hoping to find a 19" Turbine option; none of the choices on Tirerack seem to fit that description. Does anyone know of another alternative? I believe someone pointed to a 19" turbine wheel on a Swedish webiste, but I'd rather not go to the trouble of importing from abroad, particularly if there is any concern that the dimensions might be off.