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When do you think the 2170 battery comes to MX and MS?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by jnuyens, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. jnuyens

    jnuyens Member

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    The Model 3 is announced to run on the 30% more efficient 2170 batteries. This could mean a significant weight reduction for the Model X and Model S at the same capacity.

    When do you think the current models will be upgraded to use the new batteries?
     
  2. Howie4life

    Howie4life Member

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    I'm currently waiting to purchase a 100D Model X in September with a December delivery. I'm hoping that the S and X will get the new batteries and other technologies soon after the model 3 reveal. Being their premium offerings, it makes sense. I know I won't order my car if there technologies in the model 3 that aren't available in a 100K car. I suspect a lot of other buyers will feel the same way. I think that's a possible reason why they've delayed the model 3 reveal. I really hope I'm right :)
     
  3. jnuyens

    jnuyens Member

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    I follow the same line of thinking - M3 reveal delay wise. But my MX will be delivered in a few weeks - without the new batteries, I presume. And without a possible HUD or an updated center console.
    But I think that in a few years, it will be possible to update the entire drivetrain+battery system, and they will keep on adding improvements anyway.
    I've been waiting for a while now. And while the process is entirely enjoyable in itself - following up on all new stuff, promises and things which need attention.

    But I'm ready to take the plunge - and I still get lifetime supercharger use - I plan on keeping the car for a very long time ;)
     
  4. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    The other question would be if we could upgrade existing batteries to new
    Tesla offers 90 -> 100 swap now, but i feel like they should be able to do this cheaper with new cell
    Hopefully we get better tech at lower price
     
  5. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I decided to wait on on P100D purchase for this exact reason - the new batteries and the power density should provide a significant change in both range and performance.
     
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  6. DriverOne

    DriverOne Supporting Member

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    *All* the GF output for 2017 will be needed by and going to Model 3 and Tesla Energy products.

    S/X updates come every 18 months - 2 years, per Musk. Release in 2012. HW1 2014 (AP1, the "D", electronic brakes, ...). HW2 2016 (nose refresh, AP2, ...). Expect HW3 sometime mid-late 2018; it might offer a changed battery pack along with an interior refresh.

    I doubt the 2170s will make *that* much difference to range/weight, but that's for another thread.
     
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  7. Asterix777

    Asterix777 Member

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    I think if you always wait for the newer version of the car you'll never drive one.
    So I'll get the new Hardware but it'll be my second X.
     
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  8. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    They do? How much?
     
  9. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    Range yes, performance - not necessarily.
    The P100D provides greater performance than the 90D in part due to a higher cell count.
    Simplistically if Tesla are drawing the max (safe) current from the cell then the only way for more power is more cells.

    The 2170 cells are a different size (duh) therefore the current pack size may not accommodate the new cell geometry at the most efficient packing density. Therefore this may mean that the MS will need a more significant update to the body shell to fit a new 2170 based battery in. There could be hope that the MX already has the capability built into the design to take either battery as it is more recent, but the MS I doubt due to the age of the design.

    What we dont know of course if whether Tesla have managed to reduce the cell IR in the 2170s which would permit more current per cell and in turn reduce the cell count required for a given battery power output (possible improved power/weight too). we can hope.
     
  10. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Member

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    Judging from past performance, Tesla will simply roll out integration of these newer batteries across their lineup as their production ramps up. Model 3 and Energy products probably will come out first.

    Adding these new batteries to the current S and X might show minimal gains, as they might just use less of them to obtain the same range as current models.

    Lighter weight S and X will not be a game changer as the cars are pretty spectacular as currently configured.

    With so many new battery technologies comming down the pike, waiting for the ultimate battery solution will most likely be an evolving quest.
     
  11. vigge50

    vigge50 Member

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    If i believe right Tesla said under the opening of the Gigafactory(press open) that the new 2170 cells would first go to Tesla Energy, then Model lll devolopment and production and then 6-9 month after production started it would go to Model S and Model X. The new cells is little higher but it would be possible to redesign the battery pack so that you could fit a battery pack with 2170 cells in existing Model S and Model X. As Tesla use to be late I believe that they will come to Model S and X at the end of the year at earliest.
     
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  12. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    If the weight goes down due to less cells needed - that will improve performance - right?


    I agree battery tech will change - but it will be a while before we see a graphene or solid state battery in the Tesla Lineup.
     
  13. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I suspect the battery tray bolt points will be the same, they just need to realign the "puzzle" of batteries in a new battery tray and software update the car to raise it 3 mm to accommodate the taller cells. The 2170's are 21 mm x 70 mm vs the current 18650 which is 18 mm x 6.50 mm. 3 mm. Easy peasy - unless they decide to get crazy and do another falcon wing engineering event and create something that adds engineering complexity that is unnecessary - like a "falcon wing" swing out battery - for diminished capacity cell replacement, or something equally unnecessary....
     
  14. vigge50

    vigge50 Member

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    It will but the question is if it will be noticeable. I believe that the battery pack today weight about 600 kg, if they in some way manage to drop the weight by 10% it will still only have the same performance improvements as asking someone that rides with you to go out of the car wish I believe makes very little differens. Should we be think one step longer it will higher the center of gravity a bit (very little ;)) wish would make the driving experience/handling worse.
     
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  15. Murbs

    Murbs Member

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    The batteries are mounted standing up, not lying down, so the overall increase in thickness of the battery pack (presuming everything else stays the same) would be 5mm, not 3mm. Either way, it's not a big change in dimension which could easily be accommodated with a minor suspension tweak.
     
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  16. BrandonSinger

    BrandonSinger Member

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    If they drop the weight, will the X still qualify for the section 179 business deduction?
     
  17. LargeHamCollider

    LargeHamCollider Battery cells != scalable

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  18. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    It's based on GVWR being over 6,000lbs, not the curb weight. So, yes.
     
  19. jnuyens

    jnuyens Member

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    There is another thread about that question here: Ability to upgrade battery capacity later?

    If battery progress continues at about 7% per year, and Elon has indicated he doesn't want to increase the capacity over 100kWh (except for the truck or bus), this means lighter battery packs every iteration. Currently, the Model S battery pack weight is 1323 lbs or 600kg.
    I can imagine that in 8 years time, it might mean a reduction to half, to 350-300kg.

    As with the roadster upgrade, I presume people might want to upgrade the battery to newer technology around the time that the 8y warranty stops. So it would make sense for Tesla to offer this from 2020 (8 years after introducing the first Model S).
    We shall see :)
     
  20. Epymian

    Epymian Member

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    I would prefer 30% more range and capacity at the same weight. The higher density of power will improve performance (like the 100 over the 90) more than a 30% weight drop in the battery pack alone. I really hope they can do this and make it retrofittable. I balked at the 28,000$ CDN to upgrade my P90DL to the 100 but I would definitely do that for a 90 to 130 upgrade.
     

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