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When is 2022 Model 3 releasing?
- Thread starter solaraluna
- Start date
There's a lot of road trip lightweights in this thread that don't understand real driving and why range is important. Some people do actually drive 800-1000 miles per day, even if it's not you. Not stopping for 20-30% of the total trip time is also a side effect of larger batteries. Plus, in numerous parts of the country (maybe not where you live), Superchargers are very spread out. Combine that with strong winds in the plain states, or very cold weather, and more range makes a major difference for people even on moderate trips.
bjrosen
Member
No one is saying that more range wouldn't be nice to have. With 500 miles of range I'd never have to Supercharge. However don't expect to get 500 miles in a reasonably priced Tesla anytime soon. The Plaid+ will have 520 miles for $150K, the Lucid Air will have 517 miles for $140K. Tesla is not going to undercut the S Plaid+ by offering 500 miles in a Model 3 anytime soon. My guess is that the 4680 Model 3 will have 400 miles of range, it's a bump from the current 353 but no so much that it threatens the Plaid+. The only hope for a reasonably priced 500 mile EV in the near future is the Aptera but until they actually ship one you can't count on it being real.
Mmmm like I’ve said elsewhere, we don’t need more than 350-400 miles of range in a reasonably priced car. We just need more super chargers in more locations. By the looks of the supercharger line in China, that is hopefully something Tesla also agrees with. Imagine having as few gas stations as there are super chargers, especially in those Midwestern states previously mentioned- even ICE drivers would start to have range anxiety
bjrosen
Member
420 is a possibility. The good thing is that if they do decide to do 420 they'll have to be slightly conservative on the EPA tests so that they can derate it a few miles like Ford does.
That is from the A Better Route Planner app. Awesome tool, can’t recommend it enough!
oreobbq
Member
There won't be a significant range boost until they switch to the 4680 cells, probably two years away for the 3. The 520 mile Plaid+ is relying on the 4680s, that's why it's been moved out until next year. The Cybertruck and Semi are also dependent on the 4680s, they will have to ramp up production to meet the needs of those three products before they can switch the 3 and the Y over. Panasonic said that they think they can improve the 2170s by 5% per year so there could be a small boost to the 3 before the switch to 4680s but I wouldn't hold off a purchase for a lousy 5%.
That said there is no need to wait for a longer range 3, the range of the current model is enough. When road tripping all you need is a usable 200 miles of range, in good weather you should be able to get close to 300 miles if you don't drive like a maniac. The limiting factor on a road trip isn't the battery size it's the size of your bladder. Superchargers are plentiful and they are building more of them every day. Having to stop every two or three hours for a 15 minute charge isn't a chore. You stop, plug in, go to the bathroom and maybe grab a snack and then you are on your way. Pre pandemic we did 300-450 mile day trips every weekend, we didn't spend anymore time on our stops then we did when I had an gas car. As I said it's bladder size that limits how far you can go, when we needed to go to the bathroom we used gas stations when I had a gas car, now we do it at Superchargers. At a gas station you have to serialize fueling and peeing because you can't legally walk away from a car that's getting gas. The process was fill the tank, move the car and then go to the bathroom. At a Supercharger you can fuel and pee in parallel because the electrons aren't going to spill on the ground and catch fire. The bottom line is that the amount of time spent at the stop is about the same.
To get an idea about how hard or easy it is to road trip in a Tesla I recommend that you look at the Supercharger Map,
Find Us | Tesla
Use the interactive Find Us map to locate Tesla charging stations, service centers, galleries and stores on the go.www.tesla.com
Search for your region and look at all of the places that you would like to drive to. What you'll see is that you never need to drive 500 miles between charges, if you can drive a worry free 200 miles that's all you need.
I'd choose a Tesla over almost any other car. However you're making biased rationalizations if you think supercharging is better or more efficient than the 3 minutes it takes to fill a gas tank and be on your way.
Disagree. The amount of time I save never stopping at a gas station (because my batt is charged every morning) more than makes up for the few extra minutes on a road trip. Besides which, my bladder says I’m going to stop every few hours anyway. It’s really a complete non-issue and, for us, preferable IN EVERY WAY.
That’s not the argument being laid out. The main idea is change of habit. Such as pairing charging when you would be doing something other than being on your way such as streching, letting the dog/kids play out a bit before hitting the road again, restroom, eating etc.
If you’re a lone dude who simply grinds miles away, yes charging is less convenient than fueling. You need to do it more often for a longer time. But for most people that’s not how long trips go and for them, a simple change of habit makes the charging more convenient, not less.
Sure, some people do... but the comment was phrased as if anyone doing less than that was going "distance quite low". As I said, doing that distance in a day at 70MPH is 14 hours. Driving 14 hours at 70MPH isnt the speed or distance "Most people" do in a day. "Some people" sure. A road trip day is probably more like 8-10 hours, not 14, so even at the same 70 MPH thats like 630 miles, not 1000.
ABRP
ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.
abetterrouteplanner.com
if you log into the site with your tesla credentials it can pull data, is my understanding. I wont do that, but many do.
Range very much does matter. I make the SF to LA trip twice a year, and before I got my SR+ it took around 6.5 hours, and with charging it takes 8 hours.
On ICE we make one stop which is 3 hours in, spend 30min for food, and continue all the way to the destination. With the SR+ I find myself charging much more frequently, even though I know I can hold on for at least another supercharger distance away. Saving an hour in a day long roadtrip really does matter because it could mean having 1 more hour of sleep, or just more headroom to beat rush hour or getting to your destination on time.
Just now, I'm planning a trip from vegas to grand canyon park, but it turns out the superchargers are really far away. I'd need to charge to 100%, and drive at 60mph to arrive at 5%. This is really not a problem if I had even an extra 20-30 miles.
Another example was when I drove up to fort bragg from SF. I wanted to drive along hw1, but realized it really wasnt feasible because there werent any superchargers along the way. Although I had enough charge to get to the destination, I didn't have enough to reach a supercharger on the way back since there wasn't one near our destination. So instead of a more scenic drive, I had to go the boring route with a supercharger in between to top off.
For day to day I have absolutely no problems, and it's really convenient to just plug at home. But for roadtrips it definitely comes with its disadvantages.
Now as infrastructure improves, it will become less and less of a problem, but these "edge cases" are more common than you think.
On ICE we make one stop which is 3 hours in, spend 30min for food, and continue all the way to the destination. With the SR+ I find myself charging much more frequently, even though I know I can hold on for at least another supercharger distance away. Saving an hour in a day long roadtrip really does matter because it could mean having 1 more hour of sleep, or just more headroom to beat rush hour or getting to your destination on time.
Just now, I'm planning a trip from vegas to grand canyon park, but it turns out the superchargers are really far away. I'd need to charge to 100%, and drive at 60mph to arrive at 5%. This is really not a problem if I had even an extra 20-30 miles.
Another example was when I drove up to fort bragg from SF. I wanted to drive along hw1, but realized it really wasnt feasible because there werent any superchargers along the way. Although I had enough charge to get to the destination, I didn't have enough to reach a supercharger on the way back since there wasn't one near our destination. So instead of a more scenic drive, I had to go the boring route with a supercharger in between to top off.
For day to day I have absolutely no problems, and it's really convenient to just plug at home. But for roadtrips it definitely comes with its disadvantages.
Now as infrastructure improves, it will become less and less of a problem, but these "edge cases" are more common than you think.
ABRP
ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.
if you log into the site with your tesla credentials it can pull data, is my understanding. I wont do that, but many do.
Exactly. I won’t provide my login credentials but use a Tesla token instead. Much safer.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
and one specific town in NY.
...range very much does matter... so you bought an SR?
With a current LR you would've only had to stop once, and for less than 30 minutes... (19, at Kettleman, per ABRP).... that's 6 hours 11 minutes total travel time...
Honestly the 90 mins of charging even in an SR+ seems odd...ABRP says 37 minutes of charging for SF to LA in an SR+
8 minutes at Firebaugh, 17 at Kettleman, 13 at Tejon Ranch-- 6 hours 45 minutes total travel time.
Granted you might be starting/stopping on the far ends of both cities (ABRP is basically routing to the middles without specific addresses) but since the LR route with a 19 minute stop comes within less than 20 minutes of your ICE trip with a 30 minute stop seems pretty close.....so doesn't' seem like you'd need 90 minutes of charging even in an SR?
But Tesla already sells a version of your car with more ~90 extra miles of range.
...range very much does matter... so you bought an SR?
With a current LR you would've only had to stop once, and for less than 30 minutes... (19, at Kettleman, per ABRP).... that's 6 hours 11 minutes total travel time...
Honestly the 90 mins of charging even in an SR+ seems odd...ABRP says 37 minutes of charging for SF to LA in an SR+
8 minutes at Firebaugh, 17 at Kettleman, 13 at Tejon Ranch-- 6 hours 45 minutes total travel time.
Granted you might be starting/stopping on the far ends of both cities (ABRP is basically routing to the middles without specific addresses) but since the LR route with a 19 minute stop comes within less than 20 minutes of your ICE trip with a 30 minute stop seems pretty close.....so doesn't' seem like you'd need 90 minutes of charging even in an SR?
But Tesla already sells a version of your car with more ~90 extra miles of range.
A taxi fleet of ~100 cars drives about 1000miles in a day collectively. A single person driving that daily is quite remote from typical.
But as you said, the infrastructure will improve especially with large EV adoption. The thread is about waiting X time for more range and I think that waiting for infrastructure will make more of an impact so buying an EV now is future proof from that angle.
I make a similar route in terms of distance and that's why I went for the LR which makes that length as "comfortable" as with an ICE car. The SR+ needs 2 stops and for that length, you could do only one stop on an ICE vehicle. With a family, you would probably need to stop twice anyway but this is much less marginal than 1000mi.
But as you said, the infrastructure will improve especially with large EV adoption. The thread is about waiting X time for more range and I think that waiting for infrastructure will make more of an impact so buying an EV now is future proof from that angle.
All being equal.... more driving range means longer charging times on an extended trip. At least until batteries are able to accept a charge faster.
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