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When is a P85+ not a P85+?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by tga, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. tga

    tga Active Member

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    #1 tga, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
    Trolling Craigslist, I found a local dealer selling a 2013 P85 they took in trade. They claim it has the "Performance Plus Package (Upgraded Suspension)," yet it does not have a + badge on the back, and the dash display clearly shows "Model S P85" (not P85+). What gives? Could you order the plus suspension on a regular P85? I thought the Plus Suspension was what turned a P85 into a P85+... :confused:
     
  2. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    The P85+ first appeared in the Tesla Design Studio on or about April 2013. There has never been any mention of ordering any "Upgraded Suspension" as a stand alone option. The P85+ or later on the P85D was always needed for the updated suspension.

    If the dash display shows P85 then this is very likely NOT a P85+.
    You may also wish to check the brake calipers... they should be RED for the P85+.
    The brake calipers can be painted or powder coated after the fact however.
    The P85D design center allows you to delete the red calipers if you are of the mind to do that. Most folks are not aware you can de-select the red calipers on the P85D.
     
  3. tga

    tga Active Member

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    The calipers are black. To be clear, they are not claiming the car is a P85+, just that it has the "Performance Plus Package (Upgraded Suspension)". I'm trying to understand how you can get a car with the P85+ suspenstion that is not a P85+.

    All I can think of is they are either (1) mis-representing the options (claiming the car has something it doesn't), or (2) the original owner did the post-purchase + upgrade.
     
  4. Zextraterrestrial

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    getting the + upgrade after the fact was pretty expensive and I don't think there were that many that did it
     
  5. Shawn Snider

    Shawn Snider Member

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    Sound's like that Dealer is one with 'the force' of the Dealerside....

    Did he by chance wave his hand when he said that?
     
  6. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    I had one the first 8 P85+'s built in 4/2013.

    1/ The console display showed "P85", and not "P85+". It wasn't until I mentioned it at a service visit that it was corrected.

    2/ I had grey calipers. Red was not yet available.
     
  7. Shawn Snider

    Shawn Snider Member

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    Would the VIN # be of any help here? or no?
     
  8. tga

    tga Active Member

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    #8 tga, Apr 29, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
    VIN is 5YJSA1CP3DFP12188.

    I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a direct link to the dealer's site. But the all knowing Oracle of Google can answer all...
     
  9. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    #9 redi, Apr 29, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
    I can't find any details in the forum but a 12K vin is pretty early for a +. Anyone know numbers when the + started?

    I think the vin is searchable and shows several listings. I think all the + in 2013 had 21" PS2, this does not.

    My + did not show on the dash until I called Tesla (3x) and the vin was 21K
     
  10. Sharkdiver76

    Sharkdiver76 Member

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    I have a p+, dash shows p85 and it doesn't have red calipers.
     
  11. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Yes, I forgot this has 19's with (I think) Goodyear Eagle all-seasons (the pictures are hard to make out), which is another "not a real P85+" strike.

    HankLloydRight's CPO consolidator
    shows 3 CPO P85+'s with lower VINs (P10051, P10682, P11007). Even accounting for non-sequetial allocation, P12188 should be much newer than P10051, right?

    Maybe a better thread title would have been "What makes a P85 a P85+?"

    If I were seriously interested in this car, I'd probably try to get Watertown to do a pre-purchase inspection, and ask for clarification on the suspension - is it stock P85 or upgraded? But it has a few strikes in my book - no pano, white is my least favorite color, and the dealer has had it for 6 months - who knows how well they've maintained the battery.

    For a stock P85, I'd guess they're 12k overpriced, taking CPO pricing, subtracting for lack of pano, no CPO warranty reset, and unknown battery condition. This poor car may sit for a while, unloved...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it an early VIN?
     
  12. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Exactly the same here -- my P85+ was built in July/2013, no red calipers and took a while to get "P85+" to show up in the dash. Vin 15xxx.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I'm going to make a wild ass guess here that this car was built with the P85+ suspension and carried that option code (PX01) *before* TM announced the P85+ option.. much like TM started selling cars with Autopilot before that was announced/sold.

    This car doesn't have the + badge, and has 19" stock rims, and an early-ish VIN. So I think it's a franken-car P85 "plus-ish", but not a real P85+.

    That's my guess.
     
  13. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Interesting - this is the info I was missing. I didn't know the suspension was available as a separate option prior to the release of the P85+. This car appears to be older than yours. Learn something new everyday!
     
  14. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Clarification: I'm not saying it *was* available prior to the release of the P85+, just that it *could* have been. It was just a guess how it could have had that option code and not be a P85+.

    When creating the CPO Consolidator, I loaded up all the option codes, and these are relevant:

    P85D 85 kWh Performance
    PBT85 85 kWh Performance
    PF00 No Performance Legacy Package
    X025 No Performance Package
    PX00 No Performance Plus Package
    PF01 Performance Legacy Package
    X024 Performance Package
    PX01 Performance Plus
     
  15. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I would say it's up to the seller to prove their unlikely assertion that it's a "plus" without any outward indication, rather than the buyer's responsibility to assume that this isn't yet another of the MANY sellers exaggerating the truth (I've seen a LOT of cars marked "performance" when they aren't, including some 60 that obviously couldn't be.)
     
  16. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Thanks to all for making the Red Caliper clarification. You learn at least one or two things here every day!
    I will update the WiKi to reflect the early P85+ caliper information.
     
  17. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

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    tga, this car does not have the "+" suspension. I've seen the sticker. FWIW, I don't fault the dealer too much as we've pretty much all seen worse. They also say HPWC, but my guess is they don't realize the ordinary wall unit is not the 80A "high powered" HPWC.
     
  18. tga

    tga Active Member

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    We've exchanged PM's about this car, but I didn't know you had looked at it. This discussion was (mostly) theoretical - the lack of pano is pretty much a dealbreaker for me, unless the car was a huge deal (like a + at non + price)
     
  19. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    To truly find out the answer
    have the dealer take a photo of the sticker on the door sill that has the cars info
    the p85+ models came with 265/245 size tires
    the p85 came with 245/245

    i would ask them to take a pic for you and you'll know for sure
     
  20. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    P85+ started around 10K.
     

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