When is a P85+ not a P85+?

[Blurry_Eyed]

Trolling Craigslist, I found a local dealer selling a 2013 P85 they took in trade. They claim it has the "Performance Plus Package (Upgraded Suspension)," yet it does not have a + badge on the back, and the dash display clearly shows "Model S P85" (not P85+). What gives? Could you order the plus suspension on a regular P85? I thought the Plus Suspension was what turned a P85 into a P85+...

The Plus Suspention is what turned a P85 into a P85+, but there isn't one answer to this as the '+' option on cars changed over time and eventually most of the '+' suspension improvements went into the entire model line up. For example, I have a Signature P85 (Vin 532). Once the '+' option was announced, you could add the '+' option to factory orders of the P85. Then sometime after you could order the car as a '+' version, Tesla offered a retrofit option. There was what was called an 'identical' retrofit and what I think was a partial '+' retrofit. I opted for the 'identical' retrofit which replaced the entire subframe in my car, replaced all the dampers, added thicker swaybars and changed out the bushings of the car. It was quite a bit of work and was priced in the $20k+ range when I had it done. I don't think Tesla offers that particular option anymore. But Tesla does keep track of the cars they upgraded, so if you have the Vin, you should be able to call Tesla and see what their records show.

Also shortly after I first received the car back after the complete retrofit, Tesla let me know that they had not reprogrammed the dampers to be '+' dampers and let me know they did that over the air for me. I had noticed initially after the car came back to me that it didn't feel as tight as some of the Factory built '+' cars I had driven. Then after they pushed the update, my car felt much better to me.

So the bottom line is that it could be a '+' car even if the original VIN doesn't reflect it. The tires aren't a good indicator because they could have been swapped out. But if the original VIN wasn't a '+' car, Tesla should be able to tell you if it was updated to some version of a '+' car as the company sanctioned retrofits would have all been done at the Tesla service centers and should be logged in the system.

 

[3mp_kwh]

the company sanctioned retrofits would have all been done at the Tesla service centers and should be logged in the system.

Is there much banter, to suggest it was a material number who upgraded their P85's? If we knew how many individuals plunked ~20k, it might for the most part settle the question. I'd guess, few.

A number of the P85+ owners also went the other way, and started driving on 19's.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Is there much banter, to suggest it was a material number who upgraded their P85's? If we knew how many individuals plunked ~20k, it might for the most part settle the question. I'd guess, few.

A number of the P85+ owners also went the other way, and started driving on 19's.

I kinda went half-way and traded my 21x9" rear rims for 21x8.5" and put on 245s all-around (Hankook Ventus V12 evo2s -- awesome tire!). Now I just can't figure out what tire pressure to use (I might start a new thread on this).

Looking at the chart below from Tesla, I have two options:

Option 1 (see Table 1): Treat my car like a normal P85 with 21" rims and 245 tires: 42 psi all-around
Option 2 (see Table 3): Treat my car still like a P85+ (due to the "Performance Plus Suspension): 38psi front/40psi rear.

I don't know what takes precedence: The different rim and tire size in the rear (265 vs 245), or the fact that regardless of that, I still have the "Performance Plus Suspension"?

For now, I chose Option 1 (42psi all-around), since from what I've read, that should result in better range.

Comments?

 

[xachmo]

I had one the first 8 P85+'s built in 4/2013.

1/ The console display showed "P85", and not "P85+". It wasn't until I mentioned it at a service visit that it was corrected.

2/ I had grey calipers. Red was not yet available.

Hey Andrewket , sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but i've been Googling around trying info on changes over the life of the P85+.

Sounds like in the early days some of the marketing was different (Sound Studio vs UHFS, Active Air vs Smart Air) but those were changes in name only. Were there actually any differences in the hardware or build quality (P12xxx vs P22xxx) in later models? Having had one of the first P85+ models, you seem like a good person to answer this.

Trying to do my 'educated shopping' now, and appreciate the help!

 

[ArtInCT]

Hey Andrewket , sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but i've been Googling around trying info on changes over the life of the P85+.

Sounds like in the early days some of the marketing was different (Sound Studio vs UHFS, Active Air vs Smart Air) but those were changes in name only. Were there actually any differences in the hardware or build quality (P12xxx vs P22xxx) in later models? Having had one of the first P85+ models, you seem like a good person to answer this.

Trying to do my 'educated shopping' now, and appreciate the help!

Check out my Wiki, where most all changes are noted by date.
The link is in my signature line.
Enjoy
ARTinCT

 

[xachmo]

Thanks! - I have seen your wiki , its fantastic. However, there isn't much info on the things that changed between April and August of 2013.

It is possible that nothing really changed? but I'm looking at two extremely similar CPO cars; one is a P11xxx and the other is a P21xxx. There is a pretty big difference in price (P11xxx is cheaper) and I'm trying to figure out why.

 

[HankLloydRight]

As far as I know (as a mid-2013 15xxx P85+ owner) there were no changes w/r/t just the +. The + is just staggered rear wheels and the tighter suspension. There aren't a lot of parts to change there,

 

[HankLloydRight]

The 21xxx vin will have folding mirrors and parking sensors.. The 11xxx won't.

 

[Dithermaster]

> If the dash display shows P85 then this is very likely NOT a P85+.
I have a 2013 P85+ VIN 169xx
My badge says P85+ but the dash didn't until I requested they fix it, which they did (they call it the "avatar" in case you're asking for the same; they can also make the wheels match if you run winter/summer tires).
> You may also wish to check the brake calipers... they should be RED for the P85+.
I don't have red calipers.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I also don't have red calipers... those came later for all P cars as an option.

My badge says P85+ but the dash didn't until I requested they fix it, which they did

Same here.

 

[SarahsDad]

Parking sensors and folding mirrors were added after I ordered but before delivery, I couldve cancelled and reordered for more $$, but decided against it. Aug '13 build, Vin #18XXX. Had 'P85+' on the dash from the beginning, black calipers.

 

[andrewket]

The 21xxx vin will have folding mirrors and parking sensors.. The 11xxx won't.

^^ This.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

The "+" in this case is for the middle man - not the hardware - right?

 

[HankLloydRight]

The "+" in this case is for the middle man - not the hardware - right?

I don't understand this question.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Is it acually a +?

 

[ArtInCT]

Back when the P85+ was configurable in the the Design Studio, the Red Calipers were automatically checked as a no cost option.
The Red Calipers were only available as an option on the P85+. No other model S could have them at that time.
However, if you did not desire the red calipers, you could uncheck the Red Caliper option and you would then get the
black/dark gray standard colored calipers. I looked over some of the screen shots which I kept for my P85+ dream car.
However, by the time I ordered my S, the P85+ was no longer offered for sale, it having come and gone, replaced by the P85D and then
eventually the P90D which was what I ordered. Even the P90D allowed you to uncheck the red calipers.

Now, the P100D has the red calipers but it appears you cannot uncheck the red caliper option even though the check box is still there!

 

[HankLloydRight]

Is it acually a +?

Are you speaking in tongues on purpose? Is what actually a +?

 

[ArtInCT]

Here is a link to an older Motor Trend review of the 2014 P85+ and the then new 2014 BMW i8

2014 Tesla Model S P85+ vs. 2014 BMW i8 Comparison - Motor Trend

 

[cab]

As others have said, I don't think the + itself really changed. There were just options available to all Ses. Mine is as 18xxx series...one of the very early cars with parking sensors (but w/o folding mirrors).

 

[thecloud]

The Red Calipers were only available as an option on the P85+. No other model S could have them at that time.

My P85 (which is not a +) has red brake calipers, included as a standard part of the performance package. Was there an earlier point in time when they were available only on the P85+ and not the P85?