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When is structural battery pack & 4680 cells coming & Why are you not waiting until then?

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Maybe. The MY came out ~6 months early.

People are reporting on Austin more-or-less daily and it's coming along nicely. They announced the new bigger gigapress for the CT and sounds like they're going to setup a pilot line in Fremont. This makes makes sense since all the other vehicles were built there first. CT protos are going to be nigh impossible to disguise so we'll see them on the roads.

We won’t see the CyberTruck for at least another 12 months minimum. Elon is a great teaser, like a schoolgirl who knows she’s hot and has nice boobs... you can see these titties! ..but not until this, this, and that. Don’t hold your breath buddy. It’s not coming this year.
 
Tbh I’m waiting. Have a tri motor cybertruck reserved and if model y gets structural battery with 30% range increase I’ll get one of those too. My current car works perfectly fine and I’m not in any hurry to upgrade. In the battery day slides the total range increase was projected to be 54% that’ll be insane. So the 30% I was hoping for is giving them some discount lol.
 
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When do you think the structural battery pack and 4680 cells are coming to the Model Y?
When Austin is up and running? When will Austin be doing volume production of the Y? Is Tesla going to begin production in Austin with 4680 packs or 2170 packs trucked over from Nevada?

Why are folks not waiting until the 4680 cells to order their Model Y?
Won't these 4680 cells provide greater range and charging speed benefits? But, perhaps, most significantly, longevity of the pack?
I have the same questions, but I'm inclined to order and not wait. However, what is the possibility that Tesla would develop an upgrade program for anyone with an older Tesla to swap out the old 2170 battery technology for the new 4680 pack? After all, once the 4680 becomes the standard all Teslas with the old 2170 battery will immediately loose value. Do you think Tesla cares much to protect their customers car value? In an upgrade the old 2170 battery would still have plenty of value repurposed or recycled. A program like this would allow Teslas to stay out of the junk yard for many years if not indefinitely. That would be great for the planet!
 
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However, what is the possibility that Tesla would develop an upgrade program for anyone with an older Tesla to swap out the old 2170 battery technology for the new 4680 pack?

I am thinking 0% - the 4680 will be installed in the new cars as part of the structural pack, so the entire ‘sled’ is completely different design.

Sounds like Europe is getting these first with Model Y out of Berlin. Guessing Texas will be putting out cyber trucks with 4680 to start, might not see US Model Y with 4680 for another year?

Anyway cars using the existing battery tech are literally the best out there at this time, no reason they can’t be driven for years to come.
 
However, what is the possibility that Tesla would develop an upgrade program for anyone with an older Tesla to swap out the old 2170 battery technology for the new 4680 pack? After all, once the 4680 becomes the standard all Teslas with the old 2170 battery will immediately lose value.
Most likely no chance. The closest upgrade that current owners of 75kWh packs may get is the 82kWh packs, and that may even be possible for standard range owners to replace with long-range packs. Again those are huge ifs and I may be stretching it on the standard-range-becomes-long range too.

We only have to look at the now-discontinued standard range (non-plus) model 3’s to see how they lost value, and apparently, they didn’t lose much value, mostly attributing to that Tesla battery packs don’t degrade very much in time.

But I do agree that a ten years old (or more) tesla’s battery has a long life ahead of it as a powerwall or other fixed battery system after its removed from a car.
 
I have the same questions, but I'm inclined to order and not wait. However, what is the possibility that Tesla would develop an upgrade program for anyone with an older Tesla to swap out the old 2170 battery technology for the new 4680 pack? After all, once the 4680 becomes the standard all Teslas with the old 2170 battery will immediately loose value. Do you think Tesla cares much to protect their customers car value? In an upgrade the old 2170 battery would still have plenty of value repurposed or recycled. A program like this would allow Teslas to stay out of the junk yard for many years if not indefinitely. That would be great for the planet!
Zero. They’re a car company. Their job is to make and sell new cars. There will never be a program to swap to the upgraded pack.
 
Zero. They’re a car company. Their job is to make and sell new cars. There will never be a program to swap to the upgraded pack.
I agree. And why would they care about ensuring the cars retain their value after they sell it? What car company does care? If anyone is that concerned about the future value of their car when the new batteries come out, then you should wait.... and wait after that for the next great thing.
 
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I agree. And why would they care about ensuring the cars retain their value after they sell it? What car company does care? If anyone is that concerned about the future value of their car when the new batteries come out, then you should wait.... and wait after that for the next great thing.

@DanDi58 agreed that they won't do this, and it's not reasonable to expect them to.

On the other hand: do car companies care about resale value of their products? Well, yes and no. It doesn't directly affect them, but it's also fairly well-known in the market which brands retain their values better than others, which can be an unspoken selling feature. It won't matter to all buyers, but could easily be a tie-breaker if someone is down to a few vehicles on their shortlist.
 
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I'm pretty confused by the general state of the 4680 cells and whether they are actually remotely ready for prime-time and integration into existing product lines at Tesla. The battery-day presentation was nice and all, but as someone who has been involved in R&D a lot, it definitely didn't sound like it was ready for mass production with all problems sorted out. The way I see it, there are 2 major risks as a consumer waiting for 4680 cells:

1. It might still take a few years for Tesla to sort through manufacturing and get them integrated into the Model Y and other product lines

2. Even if they get it integrated into existing product lines, there is most likely going to be some early adopter pain points because I just don't see this very new (and challenging) approach to work flawlessly when they move to mass production.

What is confusing is that by all accounts, all the "press" from Elon essentially claims that the Austin and Berlin GFs are going to be tooled assuming 4680 cells. I'd imagine that it would be expensive and challenging to have fallback options of building cars with the existing battery cells in those plants. If this is indeed true, then perhaps Tesla is very confident that they can mass produce 4680 cells that are ready for prime-time by the end of this year. I'm personally very skeptical on this, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I currently have an open order for a model Y. My plan is to go ahead with it if Federal tax credits happen this year. If not, I'll probably wait to at least see what's happening with the Austin and Berlin factories before pulling the trigger. If nothing else, it should increase supply and hopefully reduce prices a bit, especially as there is more competition from other manufacturers.

Edit - I will note that I don't envision Tesla bumping up the Model Y range by much if they do successfully integrate the 4680 cells. They still have top of the line range numbers compared to the competition. I suspect they will use the new battery architecture to reduce their battery size (and vehicle weight), increase margins on their vehicles, while also providing some smaller meaningful gain in range via their increased efficiency (lighter car). People who are waiting for 400+ range numbers for a Model Y are likely going to be sorely disappointed. I don't see that happening for base models unless the competition forces Tesla's hand on that front and that isn't looking likely any time soon. I do however see them dropping prices to sweeten the deal in comparison to the competition.
 
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Batteries are ancient and well known. One of the primary reasons why Tesla came out with the 4680s is because the industry was stagnating and not innovating.

18650s are cylindrical. 2170s are cylindrical. 4680s are cylindrical. Get the point? The pack geometry changes a bit and manufacturing is less complex since there are fewer overall cells for the same size (kWh) pack. There's good stuff in the proprietary chemistry, cathode, ..etc.. where they're probably spending most of their R&D.

Once the cells are "available" then everyone is going to want them (essentially Osborne effect), even though the 18650/2170 cells are fine and reliable.

I'm pretty confused by the general state of the 4680 cells and whether they are actually remotely ready for prime-time and integration into existing product lines at Tesla. The battery-day presentation was nice and all, but as someone who has been involved in R&D a lot, it definitely didn't sound like it was ready for mass production with all problems sorted out. The way I see it, there are 2 major risks as a consumer waiting for 4680 cells:

1. It might still take a few years for Tesla to sort through manufacturing and get them integrated into the Model Y and other product lines

2. Even if they get it integrated into existing product lines, there is most likely going to be some early adopter pain points because I just don't see this very new (and challenging) approach to work flawlessly when they move to mass production.

Watch the Model X. It'll probably get a 400 mile range increase before the MY.

Edit - I will note that I don't envision Tesla bumping up the Model Y range by much if they do successfully integrate the 4680 cells. They still have top of the line range numbers compared to the competition. I suspect they will use the new battery architecture to reduce their battery size (and vehicle weight), increase margins on their vehicles, while also providing some smaller meaningful gain in range via their increased efficiency (lighter car). People who are waiting for 400+ range numbers for a Model Y are likely going to be sorely disappointed. I don't see that happening for base models unless the competition forces Tesla's hand on that front and that isn't looking likely any time soon. I do however see them dropping prices to sweeten the deal in comparison to the competition.
 
I'm not waiting because NO ONE KNOWS when they will become available. Logically, why would they put new battery packs in the 3/Y - when they are selling all they can make currently - when they will be starting volume production of the Semi and Cybertruck late this year/early 2020.... I know media reports have said that the structural battery pack (with 4680 batteries) is supposed to be used in the MY built in Berlin but I have my doubts, when they don't have enough for the Semi - which Elon has said they need to start producing.

I have a Y on order and plan to enjoy it for years.
Dandy,.. nice post,.. life is shorter than you think, enjoy now ,. these are wonderful vehicles, everyone of them.
 
Batteries are ancient and well known. One of the primary reasons why Tesla came out with the 4680s is because the industry was stagnating and not innovating.

18650s are cylindrical. 2170s are cylindrical. 4680s are cylindrical. Get the point? The pack geometry changes a bit and manufacturing is less complex since there are fewer overall cells for the same size (kWh) pack. There's good stuff in the proprietary chemistry, cathode, ..etc.. where they're probably spending most of their R&D.

Once the cells are "available" then everyone is going to want them (essentially Osborne effect), even though the 18650/2170 cells are fine and reliable.



Watch the Model X. It'll probably get a 400 mile range increase before the MY.
Exactly right,.. my range anxiety disappeared after a couple long trips.
 
I think Sandy asked Elon about this and I think he said they couldn't get 48V components and accessories from vendors. I think telecom and datacenters have moved to 48V so things will start trickling down, if it hasn't already.

There are many regulations governing cars so they'll need the industry and government regulators to move on this.

Along with the 4680 pack, did they not also want to change to a 48 Volt electrical system? I would think that they want this to run concurrently. This changes all the wiring and accessories!!
 
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This was a big reason for me holding off on a Model Y reservation (along with road noise compared to a Model S.) Because these battery packs seem at least a year away, I am filling that time with a Ioniq 5 because the V2L system seems like a great feature for camping.
 
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Along with the 4680 pack, did they not also want to change to a 48 Volt electrical system? I would think that they want this to run concurrently. This changes all the wiring and accessories!!
wanted to go to 48V electrical but the lack of suppliers and components precludes the idea. Engineers get it. Supplier companies are in chicken/egg zone.