When is structural battery pack & 4680 cells coming & Why are you not waiting until then?

[tangible1]

Apparently they have started conservatively with new battery tech and will almost certainly increase the speeds via software later

questionable assertion.
only one of the pronouncements regarding the megacast and 4680 benefits have been realized by users so far.
that being a structurally more rigid chassis. and that's also unproven, but likely.
only time will tell as to the rest.

 

[roblab]

I'm not waiting until then because my car has 400 miles of range without the new batteries, meaning I have it NOW, not several months down the road.

 

[Hurricane4911]

Stumbled across this aged thread I commented on back in the day.

I think the answer to the OP is now, self evident.

 

[MacO512]

Will we ever get an ICE hybrid with 100+ miles of EV only range?

I'd think this type of vehicle could provide the best of both worlds. Gives the daily benefit of charging at home while using no gas. Provides the ICE range for road trips and instant gas fill.

Yes it would be less efficient. But especially for large SUV/trucks/4WD/towing vehicles I'm surprised there aren't more options going this direction.

 

[boulder.dude]

Will we ever get an ICE hybrid with 100+ miles of EV only range?

I'd think this type of vehicle could provide the best of both worlds. Gives the daily benefit of charging at home while using no gas. Provides the ICE range for road trips and instant gas fill.

Yes it would be less efficient. But especially for large SUV/trucks/4WD/towing vehicles I'm surprised there aren't more options going this direction.

I think they would be a gas powered “range extender” (makes electricity for the car, as opposed to being part of the drivetrain).

Great idea and bonus points of it could be left at home / work site except when needed.

 

[MacO512]

I think they would be a gas powered “range extender” (makes electricity for the car, as opposed to being part of the drivetrain).

Great idea and bonus points of it could be left at home / work site except when needed.

Yeah I believe the BMW i3 had a setup such as you mention. Maybe that would make more sense than the ICE directly powering the wheels. However on a big vehicle or towing I'm not sure it could get enough power.

The Toyota Highlander Hybrid has a good design, large 3 row SUV that gets 36 mpg on both city and highway. Uses a small efficient gas FWD engine. Uses the electric motor exclusively on the rear wheels. So electric motor provides instant acceleration when needed to the weak engine, or in tandem with gas provides 4wd. The design eliminates having to link the front engine or motor with the rear axle. In theory perhaps it could have advantages over gas 4WD as there is no transfer case.

If the range on these types of vehicles can increase it would provide an enormous gas reduction benefit. Most trucks on the roads today are not for passenger road trips, they are for work in a city metro area.

I'm very excited to spend more time driving my model Y.

But there are a lot more challenges on these huge vehicles or towing applications to go full EV. The Model X or Rivian R1S range gets killed (half or less) when loaded down or towing. So I don't think full EV is the answer to all of these situations. But there are a lot of opportunities to improve on millions of trucks today driving around primarily with short trips getting 15mpg.

 

[tangible1]

I think they would be a gas powered “range extender” (makes electricity for the car, as opposed to being part of the drivetrain).

Great idea and bonus points of it could be left at home / work site except when needed.

that's exactly the premise VIA MOTORS (VIA Motors) was founded on, with former GM marketing wizard Bob Lutz as initial CEO.
They got plenty of attention but have mostly tread water since their inception in 2010.
Company was recently acquired, so apparently the founders got their money out.

Their vehicles used a GM platform with a diesel engine designed to operate as a generator to charge a battery, which then ran the car.
VIA did sell some work trucks to utility companies looking to experiment, and delivery trucks to a few customers.
Later they switched to offering skateboard designs that others could build a vehicle from.
Probably, the business model required too many hands in the till, resulting in limited profit margins. Especially compared to Tesla.

 

[boulder.dude]

Yeah I believe the BMW i3 had a setup such as you mention. Maybe that would make more sense than the ICE directly powering the wheels. However on a big vehicle or towing I'm not sure it could get enough power.

Diesel locomotives are actually a diesel generator connected to electric motors. Crazy power!

 

[MacO512]

Diesel locomotives are actually a diesel generator connected to electric motors. Crazy power!

Yeah good point, I remember hearing about this decades ago. Electric motors have max torque at 0 RPM; which is super helpful when trying to break inertia of a crazy heavy train.

 

[Hexo09]

Supercharging a large pack is not a good long term solution. This is kind of drifting away from the topic of 4680 cells, but there are lots of threads on the subject of Condo living with an EV. This may seem like a difficult problem to solve, but it's not impossible by any means. A couple of examples of how others have solved this problem.

Condo Charging - Minimal cost installation and some questions

All, Some relevant background information: I live in a condo building. I am also on the HOA Board. Someone who parks their car very close to me in an underground garage is buying an EV of some variety, not sure which one yet. They are a renter who will be moving out at some point in the next...

teslamotorsclub.com

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/successful-completion-of-condo-charging-installation-–-now-i-can-charge-at-home.76428/

Again, you’re assuming that everyone has access to garages. A lot of people park on the street where they live. Fast charging has to be the solution for widespread adoption of EVs, unless cities start putting chargers next to parking meters on the curb, like we see in some of those very unrealistic EV commercials…

 

[KJD]

Again, you’re assuming that everyone has access to garages. A lot of people park on the street where they live. Fast charging has to be the solution for widespread adoption of EVs, unless cities start putting chargers next to parking meters on the curb, like we see in some of those very unrealistic EV commercials…

And you are assuming that the Bay Area is typical of the American housing experience and I can assure you it is not typical. Most condos have at least one assigned parking space. Many if not most apartment buildings also have assigned parking spaces. The only problem is getting electricity to those spaces. If new building codes required that electricity was there during construction the cost would be trivial compared to putting it in afterward.

You also do not need a garage to have your own charging spot. Outdoor charging works really well.

If you always charge at a supercharger you are just duplicating the gas station model with electricity. This would be a mistake. One of the greatest benefits of owning an EV is that I can plug it in and charge while I am asleep, wake up to a full battery. A huge time saver in a busy world. The gas station model needs to die.

 

[Hexo09]

And you are assuming that the Bay Area is typical of the American housing experience and I can assure you it is not typical. Most condos have at least one assigned parking space. Many if not most apartment buildings also have assigned parking spaces. The only problem is getting electricity to those spaces. If new building codes required that electricity was there during construction the cost would be trivial compared to putting it in afterward.

You also do not need a garage to have your own charging spot. Outdoor charging works really well.

If you always charge at a supercharger you are just duplicating the gas station model with electricity. This would be a mistake. One of the greatest benefits of owning an EV is that I can plug it in and charge while I am asleep, wake up to a full battery. A huge time saver in a busy world. The gas station model needs to die.

I’m very familiar with many urban areas, not only in the US, but in Europe as well (where I grew up). What you say is simply false. The gas station model can’t die, unless there are chargers in every public parking location. Which brings us back to longer range = less of an issue when going to charge every couple of weeks. Anyway, not going to keep arguing about this, I was pointing out that longer range and faster charging aren’t only road trip issues. You are free to disagree.

 

[CMPT PAD]

Will we ever get an ICE hybrid with 100+ miles of EV only range?

I'd think this type of vehicle could provide the best of both worlds. Gives the daily benefit of charging at home while using no gas. Provides the ICE range for road trips and instant gas fill.

Yes it would be less efficient. But especially for large SUV/trucks/4WD/towing vehicles I'm surprised there aren't more options going this direction.

(Will we ever get an ICE hybrid with 100+ miles of EV only range?)
I've been searching for this type of car for a long time.
Lexus plug-in-hybrid 350? or 450? currently offers only 35+ miles of EV range. I would jump at Lexus or Genesis with plug-in-hybrid with even 75 miles of EV range. That should take care of 90%+ of normal/daily use. Tesla survives now because of no other competitions. Build quality of Lexus and Genesis cars are - IMO- much better

 

[boulder.dude]

(Will we ever get an ICE hybrid with 100+ miles of EV only range?)
I've been searching for this type of car for a long time.

Here ya go! 2021 BMW i3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

“To make up for its stingy 153-mile driving range, the i3 can be ordered with an optional gasoline-powered engine to provide additional range—something buyers who aren't quite ready to let go of internal combustion may find comforting.”

 

[BMWY]

If you've been waiting for the 4680 vaporware since the start of this thread, you've now cost yourself 10k in price increases, crazy...

That said, IMO we will never see the 4680s in anything but the SR/LR tiers. I think it's pretty apparent that at this point in time, it is not a performance oriented battery, otherwise they'd be jumping to put them in their prestige models (S/X).

 

[Thunder7ga]

That said, IMO we will never see the 4680s in anything but the SR/LR tiers. I think it's pretty apparent that at this point in time, it is not a performance oriented battery, otherwise they'd be jumping to put them in their prestige models (S/X).

I don't agree with this, currently. They are still ramping up production of 4680s and cannot supply enough to make the cars at the rate they are doing it now. They do not want to slow down production, and they also want to continue doing more real-world testing with them to get the data to continue to push the capabilities over time. It takes time to bring new products to mass production. The transition will occur at some point, and it may not be in every make/model, but their use will increase over the next 1-2 years. We're all just friggin' impatient

 

[CMPT PAD]

Here ya go! 2021 BMW i3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

“To make up for its stingy 153-mile driving range, the i3 can be ordered with an optional gasoline-powered engine to provide additional range—something buyers who aren't quite ready to let go of internal combustion may find comforting.”

Thanks, I am aware of this car, too small for my needs... IMO, it looks ugly, my nephew has it

 

[beemerphile]

Yeah good point, I remember hearing about this decades ago. Electric motors have max torque at 0 RPM; which is super helpful when trying to break inertia of a crazy heavy train.

Plus who wants to build a hell-for-stout 20 speed transmission to get it from stopped to high-balling?