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When will NEW 100kWh+ battery come out??

Discussion in 'Model S' started by scott jones, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. scott jones

    scott jones Member

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    #1 scott jones, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    I pose the question out of curiosity and because my Tesla is totaled and I want a new one but if a 100+ comes out within maybe a half year I could wait.

    here is my guess that I've had for at least the last year when I heard about the model X coming out:

    1. It will be about the same time as the SUV comes out (late 2015?)
    2. they are not going to sell an SUV with a bigger battery than the performance model S and SUV drivers would more likely want their vehicle to go further for trips which would require a bigger battery. (300 miles actual)
    3. Also when the economy version comes out they will want to show a bigger difference between the low-end vehicle and the high end vehicle... for example 200+ actual miles on a charge versus 300+ on a charge.
    4. If they don't make a bigger battery the car will never be able to utilize the full 691 hp of the two motors. (P)
    5. And as it is now with an 85 kWh battery, the S and P are basically the same after the sprint to 60... Or at least close enough to make you not want to pay an extra $20,000 post sprint.
    6. Finally I realize they are not about to advertise the next bigger battery even though it's been several years with the 85 as the top-of-the-line because that could stop sales of the current biggest battery...similar to the nonannouncement of the 70.

    Thoughts, insider info??? :)

    PS, cement highway dividers do NOT budge, even with a direct hit!
     
  2. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I am glad you are ok!
     
  3. scott jones

    scott jones Member

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    Slightly torn neck muscle and weakened wrist but otherwise fine.
    i was told it was the first totalled tesla in Indiana...sucks
     
  4. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    #4 ArtInCT, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    Just an observation... although we all live and breath TESLA here, there was not one mention of the 70D on this forum prior to its announcement. So if anyone really knew about it, they were REALLY tight lipped.

    Now regarding your question.... this is coming from ME who is not connected in any way but a former engineer....

    1) the X just cannot be as aerodynamic as the S and will probably require a bit more energy to keep range at par with the S.

    2) the introduction of the 70 kW battery is considered by many here as the precursor small battery for the X.

    3) the 70 kW battery and the 85 kW battery are very close in size now as you know.

    so... many suspect that when the X is announced and orderable, it may, just may, have a larger battery rating in kW...
    how this will be accomplished without new cell technology is the question. The current 85kW tray seems like it has limited space to expand.

    I hope it is announced BEFORE I order my S in November?!
     
  5. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    It's coming "soon".
     
  6. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Member

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    Good luck finding that "insider info." I highly doubt you'll get any compelling evidence. I suggest at least waiting for the anticipated announcement on the 30th, which is probably home storage, but possibly also a change to the 85. After that, your suggestion that (if it is in the pipeline) it'll be announced before or at the release of the X is a sound one.

    With the recent release of the 70D, I suspect a discontinuation of the 85 too. As far as I've seen, there's only been speculation as to whether the 70 comes due to an increase in cell density or quantity. My vote is for the former.

    If ordering a 85 or 85D, I probably wouldn't wait very long as they are great cars. Most likely their only benefit from a larger battery will be in range, and possibly in supercharger taper.
    But if you're looking at the p85D, you're probably right that a 100kWh battery will affect performance as well. So wait a few months if you really don't mind.

    And stop trying to rearrange the barriers, they are placed that way on purpose.
     
  7. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I would be very surprised if the Model X does not ship with a higher trim level option with at least a 300 mile range. That would most likely mean a larger capacity battery and the Model S would most certainly get the same battery. If anything I expect Tesla to try out the new battery on the Model S before it is introduced in the Model X. Exciting times ahead for Tesla innovation.

    By the time Audi and Porsche build their state of the art EVs benchmarked to compete with the 2012 S class, they will be a generation behind.
     
  8. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    From a PR standpoint Tesla needs to show that it's increasing, not decreasing, the range of its vehicles. With the P85D announcement, there's been a lot of noise in the forums about Tesla prioritizing performance over range. I think Tesla should do something to change that perception, because despite having the longest range EV on the planet, people are still asking for more and rightfully so. Even Musk himself said that the sweet spot is in the 250-350 mile range, and we aren't even in the middle of that sweet spot.
     
  9. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    Maybe X has a bit of extra space somewhere in the rear above the main pack to take couple of additional modules?
    Somewhere below 3rd row perhaps
     
  10. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    No, because Model X uses the same battery form factor as Model S for swap compatibility.
     
  11. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Member

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    I currently drive a 2012 Chevy Volt. 6 months or so after I leased my Volt, the 2013 version began rolling off the line.

    the 2012 Volt gave you roughly 35 miles on electricity without a ton of super careful grandma driving and in "good" weather. the 2013 Volt gave you 38 miles under those same driving style and weather conditions. this was achieved using some sort of change in the battery chemistry between the 2012 and 2013 model years. That is a near 10% gain. Not game changing, but a nice perk.

    perhaps the wizards at tesla have already found the optimal battery chemistry. perhaps they can figure out a way to squeeze a few more miles by wearing with the battery chemistry. who knows.

    the 2016 Volt is being called Volt 2.0 can do 50 miles of all electric range under similar conditions as those mentioned above.

    I no longer follow the day to day goings on in the Volt world so please do not take what I am about to say as the latest factual information, but my understanding is that not only has the battery capacity increased from 14.1 kW to 18.1 kW on the 2016 Volt, but the usable energy window has been expanded as the engineers at GM decided to baby the second Gen Volt battery a little less tan Gen 1 where we were only allowed use of 10.3 kW of the available 14.1 kW. (and my range extender usually kicks in after 9.9 kW and then thought the day I will see the extra .4 kW of battery usage consumed.

    Point being that there are a number of things Tesla can do to increase range. I don't think people should expect a miracle, but it was kind of a handy trick to add a few more battery modules to the original 60 kW battery, and we know that there is slight energy efficiency gain to having a second motor in the front controlling where the electrons go.

    Personally I do not think that adding the D to the 70 kW model was simply a way of adding $5,000 to the sticker price. I think it had everything to do with adding range the same way the S85D has slightly better range than the S85, but obviously the truth is somewhere between those two extremes.
     
  12. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Any time now, since I just ordered mine. :smile:
     
  13. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I agree completely. I think people who buy the Model X are more likely to need even more range than Model S drivers and the Model X is heavier and has a poorer drag coefficient. I'd be seriously surprised if the Model S is not released with at least a 300 mile range battery option.
     
  14. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    IMO the answer to the OP is: "when the new 100+ KWh battery pack will be as light as the 85 KWh battery pack"
     
  15. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    I know that
    However, if these couple of modules somehow separated from main pack and maybe used as that extra (10kw) brick protection, X can just use entire 85kw for driving
    This also may not require cooling if it's not being used
     
  16. larmor

    larmor Member

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    If not all ready discussed, do we know if all the cells in the current battery pack configuration are active?
     
  17. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    in my opinion, when the Model X is finally full unveiled, there will be a 100kWh battery pack. If I were in the market again, I would wait for the release of the Model X before I order.
     
  18. wcfinvader

    wcfinvader Member

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    I second this!
     
  19. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

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    That's what I'm doing. Sold my 2014 pre-autopilot S last week and was planning on ordering an 85D right away, but I'm holding off until the X hits the design studio as I suspect a larger battery is coming to at least maintain the same range as the S. It's very painful going to the gas station after 5 months of grinning whenever I passed one.
     
  20. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    As the same time as the P85D they also announced the 85D with 10 miles increased EPA range. Recently they replaced the 60 with the 70D which has 32 more miles of EPA range. So I think it is unfair to characterize Tesla as prioritizing performance over range.
     

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