When will we have a Basic Minimum Income?

[woof]

Can you by chance provide a version of this for those of us too cheap to subscribe?

The Single-Payer Siren Song

 

[DragonWatch]

FYI:
The Single-Payer Siren Song

I am not sure why I have the soul, the character, or the desire for good, that I have, but I do. If that is bad, then enjoy your coffee if it is not too hot

A gang of four, three others plus me, high school students helped pioneer soccer back in the '60s. Parallel to that, my father and Dr Lester Steig on behalf of Eagles like me pioneered as founding fathers of what you may know today as the Nation Eagle Scout Association. My fathers name is in the record book. A fellow track star, he and I shared the Pole Vault and long jump pit together in high school, he graduated from high school a year ahead of me and died in Vietnam before I graduated. I have carried his memory with me all these years. Of our gang of four soccer players, all of us served/enlisted during the Vietnam war. Two of them were shot down as chopper pilots, the other two of us wound up in different locations. One of the two pilots was shot down twice and much later in life creamed all over the German Autobahn. The traffic accident laid him up yet again and worse, and his entire family; they had been traveling together in two separate cars. Bob still lives in Germany, but he is living with parts unknown and mobility is marginal these days.

During my second, prolonged tour in Germany, I was stirred back awake about one in the morning during a critical field evaluation. My daughter had been in a very serious accident, she was about five. My commander had to order me back to the rear to be with her, that is how critical to me that evaluation was for our new unit. The German hospital bent over backwards to ensure my daughter's well being. In fact, the German living where the accident occurred swooped her up and drove her to the hospital. My wife was driven by a fellow officer's wife to the hospital. When I arrived in less than dress blue uniform condition, the hospital allowed me to sleep in a bed next to my daughter while my wife went home to ensure our son was getting off to school okay. The hospital had allowed my wife to stay with our daughter in the same bed I got to use. Our son was staying with yet another officer's family. The hospital fed both of us over the three days. Hell, even a German family we were close friends with spent Sunday with us in the hospital. They brought a picnic basket and a bottle of wine (wine for us, not the daughter). Now, what american hospital would allow that? Oh, none. My bill from the German hospital was $10 (1986). Trust me I was scared to death what the billing would look like when all was said and done.

That was a single payer system. Oh, and in case you missed the great recession, the German government paid companies to keep employees employed instead of bailing out big banks.

We as a nation or at least the deniers repeatedly say we do not want what the Canadians, or the British or the who gives a damn, have for medical coverage because it is so crappy. Yet for all the ego BS, there is no plan ~ none, none and none for the american citizens.

As an officer, I courts martialed one soldier and sent him home to society because he was worthless as a human being, let alone a soldier. He beat his blond wife to a bloody pulp. As an officer I pretty well ended the career of about nine officers because they did not meet my standards I expected of them to serve my nation. Three years ago following the wedding of my niece, some in-law family friend felt compelled to tell me how he had dodged the draft by taking a drug to increase his blood pressure during his induction physical, he was evaluated as 4F.

While I prefer my time alone, I am not anti-social ~ though there are times I would rather be. Dogs are full of love especially when rescued, but that is another story. I personally do not care if someone has free medical coverage, I do not care if someone has a basic minimum income, it is no skin off my nose or butt if you wish to kick me there. All those dirt bags removed from the service by me; I do not care if they have free single payer medical coverage. I do not care if the draft dodger receives free single payer coverage.

Hate knows no leaders; just itself.

@kort677 Not sure your take on the article, but for me it is the same 'ol dog poo. Oh, and thank you for forwarding me a readable version, I appreciated having the opportunity to read it for myself. The article has the standard hate black men (Obama), they hate women (Hillary) and financially single-payer will not work or it is too gD expensive. Did you know that Hillary's early legal career started by busting up private southern segregated all white schools?

Oh, and one of my dearest military friends was Jack Jackson, a black warrant officer. He meant a lot to me and we kept in touch over the years. He died about two years ago due to lung cancer; he was discharged early too. You see, back in the day our C-rations came with matches and cigarettes. Want to guess why he got addicted? Then the army came out with MREs (meals ready to eat) or as we called them, Meals Rejected by Ethiopians And of course no cigarettes. So, when you hear about flood relief victoms being fed MREs, it is not steak night.

What the deniers of our country fail miserably as humans to understand is that we have nothing medically while even China, a communist country, does have single-payer medical coverage. Why did I not hear sqaking over the mega fat boy bomb dropped a month or so ago? If I am correct the bomb cost in the neighborhood of $36 million and killed about sixty bad guys or half a million each. Was that cost effective? Once a bomb is dropped, all the money spent building that bomb is gone for ever, and ever, and ever.

In our blatant nose dive down as a country, we have chosen the path of "we are too gD hateful" to come up with a basic piece of crap medical coverage plan. It is easier to lie about a plan than actually come up with a plan that could work. You are so right, we will never come up with a plan that makes the rest of the world envious of the United States when it comes to medical coverage.

If congress was half the human of Jack, they would make single-payer happen regardless of the sacrifice. Make it happen number one.

 

[DragonWatch]

Oh look, they (Vermont) did not give up, they are try, try, trying again to come up with a plan that might possibly work. Once again, better than no plan

After single payer failed, Vermont embarks on a big health care experiment

 

[DragonWatch]

Might want to come up with a better version of "better red than dead."

Analysis | States in the South and Midwest will see the largest ACA sign-up group cuts

Maybe "if your red your dead." You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink:-( I know first had. I had a dog we loved very much that had "lime disease " and there was some meds we could give her to ease her suffering and allow us to keep her around awhile longer. But, no matter what method we tried she would find the pill and spit it out:-(

I am very cold hearted, but to deliberately legislate the death of your fellow countrymen, women and children is incomprehensible. You can hide behind selfishly not wanting to pay taxes, and elitism, and religion; but at some point, at some point it will sink in that you have deliberately let someone die.

No, you are correct, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. You are the only one that can do that. The question is can you or will you?

 

[DragonWatch]

We have attached articles of technology taking jobs away. We have attached articles of jobs going overseas. We have disagreed on causes. And we have failed to move forward on a positive solution. Since this thread has morphed into medical coverage, you can easily substitute health care for jobs in the sentences herein.

The article I am attaching depicts in current language who and what we have become, not just as a nation, but as a world community. As I have repeatedly told my wife over the last couple of years, Tesla is the only good story out there for me to cling to in a world saturated with hate. I am gambling I am right.

I have told my students on more than one occasion, before I retired, we are like day old chicks, not old wise hens. Day old chicks in incubated environments lack a mothers love and protection. Day old chicks in most cases still have the sharp egg tooth used to hammer their way through their tough eggshell. If the breeders do not get the light, water, food, shavings amoung other items just right, within a couple of days they, the chicks, will become a bloody blood bath. And even the last one standing usually dies from all its wounds.

In this story we can substitute the boys name from Jackson to any name you choose making him/her black, a different religion, other side of the tracks, a woman, a gay, a "whatever your focused hate" and ask what would Dan do?

Jackson needs to be the rock bottom of our addiction to hate.

What's in your Jackson, and are you Dan enough to seek a solution that will save Jackson's life? What will your footprint revel?

‘My heart is in pieces’: Father makes public plea after his little boy is bullied

One small step for mankind could simply be saying "no" to hate. It is easy to hide in denial and quite another to stand up fostering new positive solutions. Just say'n

 

[mspohr]

We have attached articles of technology taking jobs away. We have attached articles of jobs going overseas. We have disagreed on causes. And we have failed to move forward on a positive solution. Since this thread has morphed into medical coverage, you can easily substitute health care for jobs in the sentences herein.

The article I am attaching depicts in current language who and what we have become, not just as a nation, but as a world community. As I have repeatedly told my wife over the last couple of years, Tesla is the only good story out there for me to cling to in a world saturated with hate. I am gambling I am right.

I have told my students on more than one occasion, before I retired, we are like day old chicks, not old wise hens. Day old chicks in incubated environments lack a mothers love and protection. Day old chicks in most cases still have the sharp egg tooth used to hammer their way through their tough eggshell. If the breeders do not get the light, water, food, shavings amoung other items just right, within a couple of days they, the chicks, will become a bloody blood bath. And even the last one standing usually dies from all its wounds.

In this story we can substitute the boys name from Jackson to any name you choose making him/her black, a different religion, other side of the tracks, a woman, a gay, a "whatever your focused hate" and ask what would Dan do?

Jackson needs to be the rock bottom of our addiction to hate.

What's in your Jackson, and are you Dan enough to seek a solution that will save Jackson's life? What will your footprint revel?

‘My heart is in pieces’: Father makes public plea after his little boy is bullied

One small step for mankind could simply be saying "no" to hate. It is easy to hide in denial and quite another to stand up fostering new positive solutions. Just say'n

Hate is taught and learned. It isn't innate or permanent. Unfortunately our leaders today are teaching hate.
We need to respond by teaching tolerance.

 

[mspohr]

Here's another approach to the problem.
This public policy idea can bring America to full employment, and it’s gathering momentum

Of course, this only applies to people who are able to work (not disabled) and people who can't work because they are caregivers but it is an idea.

 

[nwdiver]

Here's another approach to the problem.
This public policy idea can bring America to full employment, and it’s gathering momentum

Of course, this only applies to people who are able to work (not disabled) and people who can't work because they are caregivers but it is an idea.

I dunno... I'm not a fan of the idea of hiring hole diggers and hole fillers...

Income and labor is already decoupled for the upper class... we need to find a way to decouple it for everyone else. The unveiling of the truck next month will be interesting. IMO a massive loss of jobs in the transportation sector will be the first employment crisis but it certainly won't be the last.

 

[mspohr]

Evidence that giving people money for basic needs helps them (duh).
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...il&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-38c4d8cc81-150080401

SNAP (nutrition) recipients had lower health care costs.

 

[James Anders]

Getting paid for doing nothing is ultimately very cruel. It saps the will and drive from people. Normally motivated people will relax their standards and fall into a malaise. We need to ensure that as automation increases that we are able to transition the workforce to real jobs.

 

[Max*]

Normally motivated people will relax their standards and fall into a malaise.

Do you have data to back this up?

 

[mspohr]

Getting paid for doing nothing is ultimately very cruel. It saps the will and drive from people. Normally motivated people will relax their standards and fall into a malaise. We need to ensure that as automation increases that we are able to transition the workforce to real jobs.

I happened to notice that your dog in your photo seems to have fallen into a malaise. Could it be that he is not motivated? Are you making sure he pays for his room and board? Has he relaxed his standards?
What about health care? Does he pay for his health care? Has he earned the right to have health care? ... or is he just sitting around the house all day expecting handouts?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Getting paid for doing nothing is ultimately very cruel. It saps the will and drive from people. Normally motivated people will relax their standards and fall into a malaise. We need to ensure that as automation increases that we are able to transition the workforce to real jobs.

That would require motivated people to feel trapped in a system that they can't change. As long as you have an active private sector that's not something that's going to happen.

As far as transitioning the workforce, the difficulty of transitioning the workforce is the problem. The mantra is "Retrain! Retrain! Retrain!". Retrain as what? For how much? With what probability of success?

 

[ohmman]

Retrain as what? For how much? With what probability of success?

And how long will it take? How successful do we think we are with the easiest segment of the population - children with growing brains? We’ve got them for 12-13 years.

 

[mspohr]

That would require motivated people to feel trapped in a system that they can't change. As long as you have an active private sector that's not something that's going to happen.

As far as transitioning the workforce, the difficulty of transitioning the workforce is the problem. The mantra is "Retrain! Retrain! Retrain!". Retrain as what? For how much? With what probability of success?

News flash!
People are trapped in a system that they can't change.
The private sector has shipped all the jobs to other countries and the few jobs that they can't export don't pay enough to live on.
The private sector has failed. It operates on the "Greed is Good" principle. Cut jobs, cut wages, export jobs, don't pay for polluting the air and water, exploit natural resources, exploit people.
The community needs to take back our government from private sector control so that it can set priorities on people and the environment, not corporate profits.

 

[MikeQ]

There needs to be a balance though. We can't go all socialist. Most peoples retirement years are paid for by corporate profits (401k/stock).

 

[mspohr]

There needs to be a balance though. We can't go all socialist. Most peoples retirement years are paid for by corporate profits (401k/stock).

It's not about socialism or communism. It's about democracy, our democracy... letting our people choose our priorities rather than the current system where the corporations run the government.

 

[MikeQ]

Yes, but the masses will choose socialism because it's easy. No one wants to work for the future anymore. They want everything now. There are many great paying jobs in the country but they require a science, math or engineering degree. People don't want to do the hard work required to get those jobs. They'd rather work at Starbucks and get behind a political movement that is pushing for $20 an hour minimum wage.

All these disenfranchised young people who are complaining about the 1% went to college and got Art History, Communications, Journalism and psychology degrees because they were the path of least resistance. Now they feel the government and corporate America and "the rich" are to blame.

We'll have jobs for a long time in this country, even with automation. People just need to be willing to work hard to have the skills needed to attain those jobs. The people who do work hard should not be expected to pay for the ones who don't.

 

[Max*]

Yes, but the masses will choose socialism because it's easy. No one wants to work for the future anymore. They want everything now. There are many great paying jobs in the country but they require a science, math or engineering degree. People don't want to do the hard work required to get those jobs. They'd rather work at Starbucks and get behind a political movement that is pushing for $20 an hour minimum wage.

All these disenfranchised young people who are complaining about the 1% went to college and got Art History, Communications, Journalism and psychology degrees because they were the path of least resistance. Now they feel the government and corporate America and "the rich" are to blame.

We'll have jobs for a long time in this country, even with automation. People just need to be willing to work hard to have the skills needed to attain those jobs. The people who do work hard should not be expected to pay for the ones who don't.

So you're saying that anyone who wants to be an engineer can become an engineer?

I guess we went to different engineering universities. Lots of people flunked out, because they weren't smart enough and couldn't handle the curriculum. There are some things that can be learned, while others that can not be learned.

You could give me a paintbrush, but I'd never be an artist. No matter how much training I went through.


ETA: And even if your theory is true, anyone can become an engineer. What would the US do with 300 million engineers in the future? UBI (at least the way I see it), is not meant for today when automation is at a 10:1 scale (there's a link about a dozen pages back, 1 robot replaces 10 people). It's more about when we hit the 1000:1 scale, then what? You still need as many engineers as you do today?

 

[kort677]

News flash!
People are trapped in a system that they can't change.
The private sector has shipped all the jobs to other countries and the few jobs that they can't export don't pay enough to live on.
The private sector has failed. It operates on the "Greed is Good" principle. Cut jobs, cut wages, export jobs, don't pay for polluting the air and water, exploit natural resources, exploit people.
The community needs to take back our government from private sector control so that it can set priorities on people and the environment, not corporate profits.

what a load of tripe! there is plenty of opportunities for those willing to get ahead. people cannot expect any sort of equality in income when there is no equality in efforts