Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #29 is available now with topics time-stamped. We discussed the Tesla Cybertruck's expected 1 MW Ultra-Fast Charging capability, the Tesla Semi Delivery Event, the coming Model 3 refresh (project "Highland"), and more. You can watch it now on YouTube.

Where can I buy Tesla bonds?

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
I've googled and googled and can't find anything. I own some solar bonds from Solar City and I am not worried by the nay-sayers. My bonds pay 5%, are senior unsecured, non-negotiable 2025 maturity. I was looking to buy some more, but the Solar City web page continues to say there are no new bonds available.

So I heard that Tesla issued bonds last August (I'm off hiking all summer, so missed the news). These have a 5.3% coupon, 2025 maturity, are junk rated, and are apparently trading below par, for an even higher yield. But I have some room in my portfolio for some more high-risk bonds from a company whose mission I strongly support and am willing to take a chance on. (Most of my portfolio is very conservative.) (I also own some TSLA, and I owned some SCTY before it got converted into TSLA. I have been a total Tesla fanboy since I got my Roadster 6 1/2 years ago, and very soon now I'll be trading it off for a Model 3. I totally believe in this company and want to support it. Not enough to ignore common wisdom about high-risk investments, but as I said, I have room for a bit more.)

But I cannot find where to buy these bonds. Anybody know anything about this?
 

Lloyd

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Jan 12, 2011
6,410
2,341
San Luis Obispo, CA
You need to search the Tesla CUSIP number to find someone that has them on the secondary market. The current offerings are fully subscribed.

CUSIP 88160R101

Although you may not have to wait long. I read one article that indicated Tesla will need another offering by the 3rd quarter of this year or sooner if Model 3 ramp is not as expected.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
Thanks.

That's a different CUSIP than the one I found elsewhere for this bond issue. This page gives it as AO7577130. Either way, I couldn't find it. Trading at below par in the secondary market makes it even more attractive, but that suggests that it is trading somewhere. If anybody knows where, I'd like to know.
 
I've googled and googled and can't find anything. I own some solar bonds from Solar City and I am not worried by the nay-sayers. My bonds pay 5%, are senior unsecured, non-negotiable 2025 maturity. I was looking to buy some more, but the Solar City web page continues to say there are no new bonds available.

So I heard that Tesla issued bonds last August (I'm off hiking all summer, so missed the news). These have a 5.3% coupon, 2025 maturity, are junk rated, and are apparently trading below par, for an even higher yield. But I have some room in my portfolio for some more high-risk bonds from a company whose mission I strongly support and am willing to take a chance on. (Most of my portfolio is very conservative.) (I also own some TSLA, and I owned some SCTY before it got converted into TSLA. I have been a total Tesla fanboy since I got my Roadster 6 1/2 years ago, and very soon now I'll be trading it off for a Model 3. I totally believe in this company and want to support it. Not enough to ignore common wisdom about high-risk investments, but as I said, I have room for a bit more.)

But I cannot find where to buy these bonds. Anybody know anything about this?

CUSIP for the 2025 bonds is U8810LAA1. IIRC, they were issued under Section 144 A and Reg S

"Sec 144A is a restricted offering into the States is often combined with an unrestricted placement of securities offshore (i.e. outside of the US) under the provisions of Regulation S. In summary, the difference between Reg S and 144A is that 144A can only be held by Qualified Institutional Buyers (QIBs) in the US."

You can find CUSIPs at FINRA.org --go to the investor section, market data center, and do a search for corporate bonds. CUSIPs for Tesla's converts are:
2018 88160RAA9
2019 88160RAB7
2021 88160RAC5
2018 88160RAD3
 
  • Informative
Reactions: SageBrush

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
CUSIP for the 2025 bonds is U8810LAA1. IIRC, they were issued under Section 144 A and Reg S ...

Thank you. I found them in my brokerage, but the message says:

"There are no markets currently available for CUSIP U8810LAA1."

I don't know if that just means my brokerage has no access to them, or they are not available at all. I'd have thought that since there are places that say they are trading below par, that means they are trading somewhere. But if they were trading on any of the regular bond markets, I'd think my brokerage would have access to them. So I'm a bit confused.

2019 88160RAB7 and 2021 88160RAC5 are trading at a premium and have negative yield to maturity. I didn't bother looking at the ones that mature this year.

Clearly there's something I don't understand, when the 2025 issue is trading well below par and paying 5.3% coupon, but those others are trading well above par and have a negative yield. I've never bought convertibles and don't care to do anything complicated. As I mentioned before, I just have the solar bonds because they supported the installation of solar power and pay a very good interest, and I believe in the mission. I also believe in what Tesla is doing, and trust them to stay afloat, but I don't support them enough to buy bonds with a negative yield. :)

... pause...

Okay. I just read up on convertible bonds over at Investopedia. Presumably the reason for the negative yield is that the conversion rate is favorable to the buyer. But this is not something I'm interested in.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
Why wouldn't you look at 2022 bonds? They are convertible 3 shares to $1000 par. You get 95% of the upside and far less danger than commons

Because I'm 69 years old and investing for income, not growth. I want interest, not more shares of stock. Also, I'm considering moving in a year or so, and I'll be selling stock to pay for the new house. It makes no sense to be buying stock when I'm going to be selling stock. Plain bonds just sit there and pay interest.
 
I don't know if that just means my brokerage has no access to them, or they are not available at all. I'd have thought that since there are places that say they are trading below par, that means they are trading somewhere. But if they were trading on any of the regular bond markets, I'd think my brokerage would have access to them. So I'm a bit confused.

Those notes were not registered with the SEC. They can only be held by Qualified Institutional Buyers and certain foreign entities.

Tesla just transferred most of its outstanding S and X direct leases in the USA to the trustee of an Asset Backed Security. They have relatively short maturities and yields are in the ~2.3% to ~5% range. The B tranche is probably no more risky than the 2025 Notes. You can register at Moody's and review their Pre-Sale Analysis then see if your broker can find them.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
I started looking for mutual funds or ETFs that may have the tesla bonds since this is limited to Qualified Institutional Buyers, so far I have only found this ishares with position in this Tesla 2025 5.3% Bond.

ETFs
iShares iBoxx $ High Yield Corporate Bond ETF
iShares iBoxx $ High Yield Corporate Bond ETF | HYG

Thanks for posting that. Their position in Tesla bonds is microscopic, though. I would imagine that there are other funds that hold Tesla bonds as well, but with such a small position, the Tesla bonds would not affect my decision to buy the fund.

I'll just consider myself fortunate that I got my solar bonds when I did.

I cannot imagine how you found this fund with Tesla so far down in the list of their holdings. Good catch!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MorrisonHiker

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,467
4,997
Kihei, HI
I currently hold $200k worth of the tesla bonds, purchased through my broker at Merrill Lynch.

Thanks. My brokerage doesn't list them, and I guess I don't want them badly enough to open a new brokerage account. But this looks like a good time to buy them. BondSupermarket says they're trading at about 90% of par and paying a 5.3% coupon with a 2025 maturity. My Solar City bonds have the same maturity, are non-negotiable, and pay a 5% coupon.
 
Why wouldn't you look at 2022 bonds? They are convertible 3 shares to $1000 par. You get 95% of the upside and far less danger than commons
Your post very well illustrates how such a rip off the stock market can be. I would not be surprised at all if some of the shorts are holding those bonds.

Has anyone got any luck buying tesla bonds recently? I am trying to replace my shares with bonds. I would be open to the convertible bonds too.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: EinSV

mhead110

New Member
Apr 26, 2019
3
10
01945
I just spoke to my broker, Charles Schwab, re buying the Tesla 2025 bonds. They are not listed on the Schwab web site, but it is possible to buy in small or large quantities.
They are not registered in the U.S., and are thinly traded (and mostly in large blocks, by institutions, so a smaller purchaser won't get as good a price).
The quote I got for 5 bonds was $86.7 = ytm 8.03% (yield to maturity) --- plus about $35 in fees plus whatever interest has accrued. This of course could change at any time. (BTY, Schwab is great, has very good intelligent customer service. 24/7 (though bonds only daytime hours)

Symbol

TSLA4530907

CUSIP

U8810LAA1
 
I just spoke to my broker, Charles Schwab, re buying the Tesla 2025 bonds. They are not listed on the Schwab web site, but it is possible to buy in small or large quantities.
They are not registered in the U.S., and are thinly traded (and mostly in large blocks, by institutions, so a smaller purchaser won't get as good a price).
The quote I got for 5 bonds was $86.7 = ytm 8.03% (yield to maturity) --- plus about $35 in fees plus whatever interest has accrued. This of course could change at any time. (BTY, Schwab is great, has very good intelligent customer service. 24/7 (though bonds only daytime hours)

Symbol

TSLA4530907

CUSIP

U8810LAA1


How do you calculate the ytm? I tried looking this up and I get the following calculation.

Coupon yield = 5.3%
Bond price = 86.7

Assuming bond par is $100, and issue price is $100...the calculation looks like this

Annual return / Current Bond price

5.3 / 86.7 = 6.11%

What am I missing?
 
Last edited:

neroden

Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan
Apr 25, 2011
14,676
63,889
Ithaca, NY, USA
How do you calculate the ytm? I tried looking this up and I get the following calculation.

Coupon yield = 5.3%
Bond price = 86.7

Assuming bond par is $100, and issue price is $100...the calculation looks like this

Annual return / Current Bond price

5.3 / 86.7 = 6.11%

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that you pay a discount to face value, but you get the full face value of the bond at maturity.
100 / 86.7 = 1.1534 (or 15.34%), which over 6 years is an annualized rate of 2.41%
6.11% + 2.41% = 8.52%

This isn't quite right, since I estimated 6 years and it's not *exactly* six years until maturity, but you get the idea.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: jbih

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top