Where does AP get speed limits from? How can I fix/ask to fix them?

[EchoDelta]

Hey- I am slightly embarrassed because I should know this, but I can’t find a definitive answer.

where does ap currently get it’s speed limits from? How can I fix it?

Specifically, I need to fix one near our house where AP will abruptly slow down on a 4-lane road indicating a max speed from 45 to 25. This is super dangerous and mildly annoying.

I checked all sources of info I could find (county GIS, Open Street Maps, Google, etc) and they all have the correct speed limit.

Also, I’ve “reported” the bad speed over a dozen times via the (somewhat vague and suspiciously open-ended) “report a bug” feature over the last months.

any advice on where to look or how to get it fixed?

Thx,

 

[Wnuk]

I’d like to know to. A road right by my house gives the correct speeds when I am driving southbound, heading north on the same road and the limits are all messed up. Don’t know how that is even possible.

 

[Tam]

...where does ap currently get it’s speed limits from?...

Currently, it gets speed limits from GPS database. That means it can quickly be obsolete and wrong at some stretches of the roads. Someone needs to manually update the database.

You can send the correction from the Support website and it will be forwarded to the appropriate team but I won't hold my breath for any timely corrections.

By the time somebody will be able to manually update the database, your FSD capability might be able to visually interpret the speed limit from street signs and will make GPS database as a secondary, backup resource in case your camera is out of order.

Good luck!

 

[Matsayz]

Currently, it gets speed limits from GPS database. That means it can quickly be obsolete and wrong at some stretches of the roads. Someone needs to manually update the database.

You can send the correction from the Support website and it will be forwarded to the appropriate team but I won't hold my breath for any timely corrections.

By the time somebody will be able to manually update the database, your FSD capability might be able to visually interpret the speed limit from street signs and will make GPS database as a secondary, backup resource in case your camera is out of order.

Good luck!

Are you referring to the OSM database?

 

[Tam]

Are you referring to the OSM database?

There's a discovery that Tesla uses OSM for Smart Summon:

OpenStreetMaps and Smart Summon

So in theory, if you create a new private street, you should be able to perform summon there but I haven't heard any successful report yet.

It is also assumed that Tesla speed limit must also come from OSM but I have not heard any admission from Tesla yet.

Tesla may use OSM and anyone can enter erroneous info so I guess Tesla still has to verify the data for validity.

That means you might as well send a corrected speed to Tesla directly rather than through OSM.

My guess is Tesla is pushing toward speed sign recognition rather than manual speed inputs.

 

[Matsayz]

There's a discovery that Tesla uses OSM for Smart Summon:

OpenStreetMaps and Smart Summon

So in theory, if you create a new private street, you should be able to perform summon there but I haven't heard any successful report yet.

It is also assumed that Tesla speed limit must also come from OSM but I have not heard any admission from Tesla yet.

Tesla may use OSM and anyone can enter erroneous info so I guess Tesla still has to verify the data for validity.

That means you might as well send a corrected speed to Tesla directly rather than through OSM.

My guess is Tesla is pushing toward speed sign recognition rather than manual speed inputs.

Gotcha. Yeah I find it hard to believe that Tesla would blindly believe an open source easily messed with database. I use Mapillary when driving to map my city and thyme use OSM to fix the map/speed limits/new buildings/etc. I have yet to noticed my car displaying the proper speed limit on “that road”. I don’t know they whole history behind Mobileye and Tesla but I would agree that the car should be able to read signs if it doesn’t.

I did bumble my way through the Support page you linked to but like you said it seems to be a black hole for customer support of anything.

 

[Jtrader]

It reads the speed limit sign.

 

[Matsayz]

It reads the speed limit sign.

Can you link to that? I’d love to be wrong but
I’m willing to bet a 6pk of your favorite beer it doesn’t

 

[thefortunes]

It reads the speed limit sign.

It reads it yes, but does not use that info to act upon (yet?).

 

[Tam]

It reads the speed limit sign.

I don't know which Tesla can read speed limit signs because both of my current 2017 Model X and 2018 Model 3 still don't as of today.

Here's a picture of how the Model 3 thinks the parking lot has the speed limit of 70 MPH (right hand icon) and its TACC (central grey circle icon) is ready to fly the car to that speed at 70 MPH! This area has signs posting at 25 MPH and nowhere in this area has any signs higher than that 25 MPH speed!

I paid FSD for both of my Tesla but Tesla has not updated my hardware yet.

On I-5N before reaching Bakersfield or I-5S before reaching Tejon Ranch, there's a long stretch that both of my car say the speed is 55 MPH when multiple road signs say 70 MPH. That's a difference of 15 MPH!

In Los Angeles area, there are multiple signs saying 55 MPH but the cars still say 65 MPH.

This discrepancy has been very reliable since I bought my first Tesla in 2012 and this phenomenon has not changed for the past 8 years!

With the upcoming hardware and software, I do believe that my cars will be able to read speed signs soon and this phenomenon will be resolved soon but not now (and that's what I've been saying to myself soon for the past 8 years!!!)

 

[EchoDelta]

Ap1 used to read signs.
For ap2 and above, it used a database.
We know it isn’t directly OSM (May be lifted from OSM and validated) because “that street” has all the correct attributes in OSM.
I assume it will swap to reading (and acting upon) signs 2020q3..4

 

[Mo City]

There is a stretch on southbound highway 288 in Houston near the South Belt where AP thinks the speed limit yoyos from 60 to 50 to 60 to 50 to 60 in less than two blocks. Upon crossing FM518 a few blocks later it shows 60 to 50 to 60.

Needless to say, this renders AP completely useless in that stretch because the slowdown is quite abrupt, enough to get rear ended.

Whatever database Tesla is using should have an algorithm to detect obvious anomalies like this. Makes me want to scream.

 

[Tam]

...Ap1 used to read signs....

Ahhhh! The good old AP1. I completely forgot about that!

AP1 does read speed signs but

1) drivers can still get speed tickets because it does not automatically reduce to the posted speed limit.

2) It is not very reliable. I-80 interstate sign

is erroneously interpreted as 80MPH

So, some people with AP1 with speed sign recognition want the AP2's database method while people with AP2 want AP1's visual method.

Not to worry, AP3 is here and we'll have a fusion of all the good stuff so people don't have to wish for AP1 and AP2 anymore

 

[emmz0r]

I wish I could turn it off!!!
It drives me nuts:

 

[Jtrader]

Can you link to that? I’d love to be wrong but
I’m willing to bet a 6pk of your favorite beer it doesn’t

My 2015 AP1 clearly read the signs. I just assumed my 2017 AP2 S did but haven't bothered to notice. I'll look and see.

 

[Matsayz]

It’s GPS based so

My 2015 AP1 clearly read the signs. I just assumed my 2017 AP2 S did but haven't bothered to notice. I'll look and see.

From what I’ve read just recently, AP1 used Mobileye to read signs. When Tesla and them had their big fight that all ended because of patents and money etc. I’m sure Tesla will figure out a way to read signs again if they haven’t but parents are a pain...

 

[jamnmon66]

This is a bit of speculation but it may be a clue. There's a spot near my house where the speed limit is 45. There used to be a sign upon entering the city limits that said "Speed Limit 30 unless otherwise posted" (or something similar). It looked exactly like a regular speed limit sign but it had the extra text. However, about 1 mile before the sign and about 1/4 mile after that sign, there are standard speed limit signs posted at 45mph. So, obviously, the speed limit is 45 but the local roads department posted that sign so that people know that unmarked roads inside the city have a speed limit of 30.

Here's the interesting part that leads me to speculate. They took that sign down a couple of years ago. No idea why but I'm guessing that it may have caused confusion. Or, maybe someone ran into it and they decided not to replace it. In any case, my Model 3 slows to 30 right where that sign used to be and then speeds back up roughly on approach to the next 45mph sign.

My guess is that Tesla populated their private map data with info from the AP1 cars. Then, at some point, they locked that in and it has to be updated manually now. The sign that was taken down was similar enough to a regular speed limit sign that, if they didn't include the logic to get the meaning from the extra text, it would have been read as a 30mph speed limit. If they were pulling the speed limit on that stretch from the county or some other primary source, then it would have been labeled as 45mph from the beginning. I just checked Open Street Maps and there was no speed limit assigned on that segment. I'm not sure about Google Maps. There are other explanations but this seems like the most reasonable to me.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I don't think I've come across anyone who has successfully gotten a speed limit in the database fixed.

If Tesla has a mechanism for this than probably 90% of the speed limit issues would be fixed within a few months.

The only thing left would be areas where the GPS got confused about which road you were on.

 

[Matsayz]

I don't think I've come across anyone who has successfully gotten a speed limit in the database fixed.

If Tesla has a mechanism for this than probably 90% of the speed limit issues would be fixed within a few months.

The only thing left would be areas where the GPS got confused about which road you were on.

So make the fix on the Open Street Map or screen shot it to me and circle it with a larger area of it screenshotted to and I’ll fix it.

BUT you won’t see it fixed until Tesla pushes a new map update (and that’s a big maybe)

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So make the fix on the Open Street Map or screen shot it to me and circle it with a larger area of it screenshotted to and I’ll fix it.

BUT you won’t see it fixed until Tesla pushes a new map update (and that’s a big maybe)

Have you actually seen one fixed?

I've seen people report doing what you just said, but I haven't seen anyone report that it successfully fixed it.

I did update the parking lot map (to add lanes), and that did fix the Smart Summon routing. Smart Summon still sucked, but at least the route it was taking was correct.