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Where is the California Supercharger build out?

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Before you place my head on a pike, let me say that Tesla needs Superchargers throughout the country including North Dakota and many other remote locations.

That said, I can think of several locations in California that ought to have Superchargers that are not part of a major metropolitan area: Susanville, Mendocino/Ft. Bragg, Interstate 5 north of Sacramento around Woodland or Williams, SR99/70 around Marysville/Yuba City, Tulare/Visalia, Bakersfield, and Grass Valley/Nevada City. I am not saying that each of these spots should have a Supercharger--at least not within the next two years--but I think some of them should.

I would hazard a guess that most, if not all, of these locations would attract more usage in one week individually than the entire buildout in North Dakota would attract in one month.

Additional locations in California appear on Tesla's projection for 2017 the last time I looked. They are coming!
 
Most of Tesla's Supercharger crowding is caused by locals charging there, rather than their homes.

I was just at a normally crowded SuperCharger at San Diego,Qualcomm. Met a rather entitled owner who said he lived only 4 miles away, but prefered to wait in line for a spot, rather than charge at home where it was not free.

I was there for about 20 minutes for enought to get back to Canyon Lake, and very few of the plugged in cars were moved. Maybe many of the employees were pluging in and leaving their cars there while they went to work.

If customers used the Superchargers as intended, for long distance remote traveling, most of the problem would vanish over night.

Saw the same thing at Whole Foods parking spaces. Customers would just plug in for some free juice while getting their normal shopping done.

Always gonna be a line for free stuff...
 
Couple places we absolutely need superchargers are in South Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. Both are heavily traveled tourist destinations and one has to rely on destination chargers quite a bit. I am always a bit uncomfortable relying solely on a destination charger in a popular destination. They can ICEd (happened in Tahoe couple months back) or it may not be working or may be occupied by another Tesla.
 
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When I took delivery more than 4 years ago, there were 6 Superchargers in the country. I remember people complaining loudly how little progress had been made at various times over the past 4 years, and so far Tesla has responded with an incredible build out once one takes a step back.

But they haven't kept pace with demand. It was actually easier and quicker to do a trip from San Francisco to San Diego when there were only 6 superchargers because they weren't busy. Now they are overloaded and even when not overloaded, Tesla isn't keeping up with maintenace to avoid Supercharger slow downs.

In that brief few days before Tesla asked the site owner to take the site down, we got to see which superchargers were busy where. And southern CA, unique across the entire US, was a disaster area for access to superchargers.

We need lots more superchargers in CA, especially in southern CA.
 
A few things here. California, if nothing else is where all the new model roll outs will start. Who will be getting all the new Model 3s first? (Sorry everyone else) But that means California SC infrastructure will be overburdened with the M3 before anyone else. There is lots of opportunity to expand coverage here. Many have cited specific locations. i also look at double coverage with 2 SCs in Rocklin/Roseville and Truckee. Okay, do double coverage in higher density areas like they have under way in Fremont. Marin County or West Contra Costa would fill a gap.

When I talk to the Tesla folks about this, it usually points to the local authorities granting permits. I am sure that is legit in some places, but not an overall excuse. So the net - - I agree with the overall direction of this discussion.

On the other hand I do have to call out the posters here that are bashing local charging. Yes, if an owner has a home charger that is a different matter. If I could have a home charger I would. As a matter of fact I have a HPWC sitting in a box in storage. My landlord sold off the house I was In and I had to remove the charger. I am now in an apartment with no charging available. Not planned, but dealing with it. I charge where I go. Level 2 and SCs. So please no blanket bashing of local charging. Not everyone has the capability to change at home.
 
Tesla stated they would double the number of supercharger locations in the US prior to the model 3 launch.It's likely impossible at this point that they will achieve anything close to that. They would need to open a new site every few days at this point. Same with service centers, which actually concerns me more.
 
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The permitting excuse for lack of superchargers is wearing thin. The two southern CA SC that I kept tabs on during construction were not held up due to permitting. They were delayed due to poor project management, which Tesla had subbed out to black&vertach, an engineering firm.

Look, the whole charging part of the car reeks of incompetence. The UMC and/or its adapters have been recalled more times than I can count, they produce a 6-15 adapter that no one wants, yet routinely run out of 14-30, and then discontinue the 6-50. The SC rollout occurs in fits and starts and is subcontracted to an outside firm, which is very odd since it is a recurring activity for Tesla. They should develop the expertise in house.
 
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Not being experienced with the California Supercharger delimma, is the issue a lack of locations or a lack of capacity? To an outsider it looks like there is decent coverage, so maybe increasing the number of stalls at existing sites is the plan. This would not show up in the places you mention -- supercharge.info is crowd sourced, and if nobody is looking for permits related to increasing capacity at existing Superchargers, they won't show up there.
It's the lack of capacity. On my 150 mile round trip I can pass four different superchargers and there's not a single stall free. Drive to Vegas on a holiday weekend and you'll be waiting at Barstow for hours. It's not lack of locations, it's capacity. Along the 5 they solved the "Teton Issue" by adding additional locations within a few miles. We need a lot more of that. It doesn't have to be either/or with the route buildout that seems to be happening nicely since the fist of the year. I don't want more SC stalls in California at the expense of North Dakota or wherever, I'm saying we need both.
 
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And in all that time no other EV manufacturer has made a serious or even quasi-serious attempt to provide a useful high speed DC charging network for their customers.
Which is about to change with VW's Dieselgate settlement spending -- $370 million over the next 2.5 years just on EV charging infrastructure to be followed by a continuing buildout for at least 7.5 years after that.
 
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Maybe they need to change the idle fee to a 'local' fee. If you are within 50 miles of your home (defined as where the car is usually parked at night to prevent faking a home address), you pay to charge. Supercharger is completely free when traveling outside of your home area.

Putting on my flame retardant suit now.

Like the thought but the case: Tesla w/ 300 mile range, day trips out one-way 160 miles. Charge near home on your way back.... is that "long distance" travel?
 
I also am concerned that the supercharger expansion doesn't seem to be happening here.

Using superchargers is already getting to be problematic and if the Model 3 sales projections are anywhere near accurate, we are going to have a huge problem. I happen to be a person who can drive 300+ miles in a day and without supercharger access my P85D is effectively useless.

Agree completely ... the Model 3 tsunami is about to hit California and the Super charger issues will be significant. :cool:
 
Yes, yes it is. Norway has the highest per-capita and highest market share percentage EV sales in the world.

Do they have more Tesla's than California? I don't care about per capita, show me absolute quantities.

The following table shows Model S sales by year for the top selling countries through December 2016: Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

upload_2017-3-30_20-42-2.png
 
Of course there are people who cannot charge at home (renting an apartment for example). There are also people who simply want free fuel. Then there are those who charge up to 100% even when it's not necessary. It's interesting to note that the superchargers that are crowded are the ones in the two big metropolitan areas where many Tesla owners live: the greater bay area and L.A. areas. These are generally not people who are going on a long trip. As for the other superchargers, even in California, they rarely are full.

True, northern California could use a few more supercharger locations - Williams, Susanville, and Leggett would be good locations I think.

As for the crowded superchargers in the big metropolitan areas, how about if Tesla were to charge a per-minute fee for access during peak times. That would encourage locals who can charge at a different time, to do so, or to plug in for a shorter amount of time. I'd rather Tesla not throw their limited resources at the issue of crowded superchargers, at the expense of building new superchargers in under-served areas. If everyone would be courteous and avoid staying any longer than necessary when the stations are crowded, and when possible plug in during off-peak times, I think that would go a long way toward remedying the issue.
 
The blame is always on locals abusing the system. I understand how easy it is to find a culprit, but it's not that simple. 9 out of the 10 busiest freeways are in California, 7 of them in Los Angeles alone. The amount of miles driven here is just not comparable to other regions. Almost half of all Teslas in the US are in California. People drive a lot here and they need to charge. It just isn't always practical to charge at home because it takes too long. It isn't practical to run the car down to near zero. People want to keep their battery more in the full and to be able to use it when something comes up. Being able to top of quickly is often what you need to make the car useful.
Tesla puts in Superchargers where there is demand for good reasons. They know people here drive a lot and need to charge and not drive home and wait 3 hours to top off.

The issue is not locals, the issue is the ratio between Superchargers and cars is pretty bad in California.
 
I strongly believe that we need a lot of L2 chargers to solve the crowding of Superchargers. We need L2 chargers at every workplace, mall, public parking, street parking, shopping areas, amusement parking, ... And we need lots of them. We need the ability to plug in wherever we go and we need a lot of them so everyone gets a spot. There is nothing more convenient to plug in where you go anyways. Going to Superchargers to top off is inconvenient, but right now there are few alternatives.
 
But they haven't kept pace with demand. It was actually easier and quicker to do a trip from San Francisco to San Diego when there were only 6 superchargers because they weren't busy. Now they are overloaded and even when not overloaded, Tesla isn't keeping up with maintenace to avoid Supercharger slow downs.

In that brief few days before Tesla asked the site owner to take the site down, we got to see which superchargers were busy where. And southern CA, unique across the entire US, was a disaster area for access to superchargers.

We need lots more superchargers in CA, especially in southern CA.

Four years ago, if you wanted to road trip from SD up to the SF Bay Area, you had to go through Hawthorne. And originally, I think there were something like 5 or 6 stalls there. That was a bottle neck. So was Tejon. And do you remember when Harris Ranch had 1 (one) stall?? Waits were not only common, they were the norm. There was just no other way to get from SF to LA, let alone SD, without waiting at Superchargers unless you went mid-week. Then Tesla electrified 101 with Atascadero, Buelton and eventually Oxnard. They have now added additional SCs in and around Tejon at Buttonwill and Bakersfield West to make waits in that area non-existent. (We stopped at Buttonwillow and then Bakersfield on weekends in January and saw only a couple of other Teslas at both stops.) They they added Manteca, and now another south of that on I-5. Going to Yosemite 4 years ago from here was a tough thing to plan. Now it's one stop at Manteca. Same with Tahoe -- there now are 5 or 6 Superchargers along the way and more up there in Truckee. How about Mammoth from SoCal? Virtually impossible even just 3 years ago. Now, no problem at all.

We did a road trip in January where we didn't wait once at Superchargers except for at Buena Park the night before I returned, and that was only because we chose to stay in a hotel that didn't have any kind of charger, which is becoming rarer and rarer these days.

Point is -- having done maybe 20 road trips with our cars to/from SoCal in the past 4 years, it is SO much easier now than it was then. We are going on another road trip to La Jolla and SD next month, and will take advantage of the Supercharger down there if we need to but worst case will use a destination charger at our hotel overnight. Four years ago there was no Supercharger down in SD and was pretty difficult to find any hotels that had chargers, and when they did they were L2 with maybe 30 amp max. It was virtually impossible to road trip down there without getting a full charge at Hawthorne, which was never easy.

Does that mean Tesla doesn't need to build any more Superchargers? Of course not. But with any sense of the history, one cannot be impressed with how far we've come in just a few short years. And when there were embarrassing waits like at Tejon two years ago over the holidays, Tesla moved quickly on that to open up Bakersfield and Buttowillow and waits at Tejon disappeared overnight.

And on maintenance, not sure what data you're looking at. I've seen some stalls down from time to time when we've traveled, but when I've returned to those stations, like in Gilroy, Harris Ranch, and Buena Park, those stalls were fixed. People complained about delays in renovating and expanding Harris Ranch or problems with some of the stalls, and Tesla responded. When we stopped at HR twice in January, every single stall was operational. Same with my trip up to Vancouver, B.C. in February. I didn't encounter a single Supercharger location where a stall was down, or at least none that I saw. That was pretty impressive if you ask me.

I don't see Tesla jeopardizing its business model by dragging its feet to roll out more Superchargers when the demand warrants it. So when the Model 3 does start rolling out in numbers, I would expect Tesla to ramp up Superchargers. But I doubt they will invest in building them just so people can get their free charge in their neighborhood because they want to save a few dollars by not charging at home. I see this all the time in Mountain View and Dublin, two of the busiest Superchargers in the US. People just want free stuff, and some people would rather save a few dollars by going to the Supercharger than charging at home and spending time with friends or family. But the congestion at those two has never, ever affected our long distance road trips.