Where is the California Supercharger build out?

[McRat]

,,, The new Volkswagen electric Golf is just the beginning of a host of new ev's coming. ...

Really?

Please don't read Electrek except for entertainment. Sort of like Rush Limbaugh. It can make you think, but it's goal is to entertain, not inform. Why do I say that? I'm looking at their page right now with a big ICE SUV ad up at the top. Say anything to get traffic/hits, which conflicts with news.

Electrek 5/2016: "2017 VW eGolf with up to 186 miles of range by the end of the year"

The 2017.5 or 2018 Golf will get a bump soon, but not to 186 miles like Electrek headlines claim. It will be 125 miles of VW pre-submitted EPA range. To offset the larger 36kWh battery, they bumped the power 10kW so they could still match 2011 era budget EV performance. A Volt will spank it, BMW i3 will smoke it, a Bolt EV would put it to bed with no supper, and a base stripped MS60 would suck the freakin' paint off of it.

No word as to where they are putting the extra battery, but on most large battery ICE conversions you do give up space in exchange.

 

[miimura]

No word as to where they are putting the extra battery, but on most large battery ICE conversions you do give up space in exchange.

They are putting 50% more battery energy in exactly the same pack envelope. The e-Golf cargo area is indistinguishable from an ICE Golf. The only difference you can see from inside the car is the bumps in the floorpan under the front seats, which make the floor mats unique. Rumor has it there will be no price increase with that extra battery capacity either. The e-Golf is a good car for the price, at least in California. Certainly better than the other budget compliance EVs like the 500e and Spark EV. We leased one in 2015 and it will be replaced by a Model 3. 125 miles of EPA range is enough for a lot of people to travel within a metro area like the SF Bay Area or the greater LA area.

 

[McRat]

... Certainly better than the other budget compliance EVs like the 500e and Spark EV. ...

The Spark retired much cheaper and much quicker than the VW but with the same reported range. 7.5 seconds to 60 vs VW's best of 9.5 seconds. Both have EPA Hwy range of 75 miles.

The question is, do you want to be punished for driving a Green Car? Always holding up traffic or stuck in the slow lane? Never being able to pass? The 2011 Nissan Leaf is about equal to the 2017.5 Improved eGolf in performance. Unacceptable effort from the World's Biggest Car Company who claims to have the most extravagant Ultra Green plans for the future. A late release of a 1/2 arse effort.

 

[Pjorg45]

We are now three months into 2017. In the state that holds, by far, the largest number of registered Teslas there is currently not a single supercharger under construction (Fremont-2 doesn't count). There is not a single supercharger permit listed at supercharge.info. I still return from long trips and can not use my vehicle for the remainder of the day because close superchargers are full (San Juan and Fountain Valley). Yes, I charge at home and no I don't "normally" use superchargers close to home, but it's nice to charge after an out and back trip so you can use your car for the remainder of the day and not have to wait for an overnight charge.

I'm all for the route buildout, and I guess it's nice that I can get to Houston via a southern route shortly (not really), but where is the density buildout in crowded California?

Adding new super chargers can be complicated because it involves more than building them. You have to talk the electric utility into providing the demand capacity and transformers. Transformers have long lead times now. One solution which may speed things up is to use Tesla Powerpacks that would be charged during night times or periods when other adjoining sc's are idle. I also suggest that Tesla offers the option to charge from pure sustainable energy. People who can afford a MS don't really care if it costs 0.05 per mile to charge their car-especially if they know it is pure sunlight, not coal or NG. I am also thinking that we-- the Tesla community -- get real and help with this effort. The economics of creating a Tesla Charging LLC are very favorable. Given the choice of using a free SC which is coal based or pay $10.00 for PV sourced power I wouldn't mind paying. If 100,000 Tesla owners invested $1000 in a separate Tesla Charging LLC we could build a lot of Charging stalls and also get a reasonable ROI. Thoughts?

 

[cpa]

Adding new super chargers can be complicated because it involves more than building them. You have to talk the electric utility into providing the demand capacity and transformers. Transformers have long lead times now. One solution which may speed things up is to use Tesla Powerpacks that would be charged during night times or periods when other adjoining sc's are idle. I also suggest that Tesla offers the option to charge from pure sustainable energy. People who can afford a MS don't really care if it costs 0.05 per mile to charge their car-especially if they know it is pure sunlight, not coal or NG. I am also thinking that we-- the Tesla community -- get real and help with this effort. The economics of creating a Tesla Charging LLC are very favorable. Given the choice of using a free SC which is coal based or pay $10.00 for PV sourced power I wouldn't mind paying. If 100,000 Tesla owners invested $1000 in a separate Tesla Charging LLC we could build a lot of Charging stalls and also get a reasonable ROI. Thoughts?

IANAL. But I would presume that an LLC/LP that would have 100,000 subscribers would have to conform to federal securities laws. The cost to operate something like this would be expensive: Accounting/billing/collections/disbursements systems; repairs and maintenance; telephone support; legal and accounting/income taxes. Do you know how long it would take to prepare a 1065 that had 10^5 partners? What about for all the states? If there are modest profits, the equity owners will have to file income tax returns in all the states where these PV-type Superchargers are located.

Your idea is interesting, but I feel that it is impractical in many different ways.

 

[4SUPER9]

When I saw the new Tesla SC map, I was hoping this thread would die. I guess I was wrong. I just searched for building permits in many of the cities listed in So Cal, all to no avail. Then again, my search capabilities have been known to not be that fantastic.

 

[cpa]

Rocklin Service Center appears to have the preliminary work started for expansion. The pavement is all marked up.

 

[roblab]

I happen to be a person who can drive 300+ miles in a day and without supercharger access my P85D is effectively useless.

Useless to you. You are unable to figure out charging unless it's a supercharger on your route. You don't want to deal with it, it's not worth the time. Sure. I get it. And you "can" drive 300+ miles in a day.

I had an 85 (moved up to 90D). In 2012, a month after I bought it, I drove to Canada and back. Showed off my car to all my rich relatives. It was effectively useless. I charged at motels, relatives' circuit breakers, garages, parking lots, RV parks. Always used my 14-50 plug. Usually went for a walk or shopping while it charged. There were no superchargers in the world that I knew of. I don't know how we made it, 5000 miles.

Yeah, over 300 miles a day. Start from motel. Drive 60-65 mph. Go 230+/- miles. Stop at RV park and plug in UMC. Walk over to restaurant and have lunch. 8 kW per hour gives around 25 miles per hour (208 v 40 amp). Shop some. Go back to car. Drive to friend's house. Rewire his circuit breaker and charge at 9 kW while we visit. Drive to next motel. Charge overnight. Trip was planned, stops were planned, motels were planned.

That happened only a couple times a year. The rest of the time, it was charged when I went out to the garage in the morning, which a gas car cannot do. And, unlike a gas car, my car is quiet, quick, non-polluting, smooth, fun, agile, gorgeous, roomy, never wastes time at a gas station (always loved standing there holding the nozzle in windy below freezing weather), and is safer than most gas engine cars. I still drive over 300 miles some days, and charge a second time at home while I eat lunch.

Don't mean to argue. Just saying that some things are worth working with, and there are many inconveniences to driving a gas car, but we've gotten used to dealing with them.

 

[roblab]

[QUOTE="apacheguy, post: 2030519, member: 10794

Is it ever jammed like our superchargers?[/QUOTE]

Time your travels to coincide with low volume SC usage. If you don't like having the herd charging when you want to, don't be a part of the herd. I never have seen Harris full. Usually 4 or 5. I saw Mountain View full once, waited a whole minute before someone pulled out.

I know. There will always be a bunch of people who "have to" use SCs after work. Well, then you have to put up with crowding, standing in line, and complaining that Tesla doesn't have enough chargers.

 

[TexasEV]

From posts in other threads, it appears the California buildout is starting with expansions at Barstow and Harris Ranch in addition to Rocklin mentioned above.

 

[EVie'sDad]

[QUOTE="apacheguy, post: 2030519, member: 10794

Is it ever jammed like our superchargers?

Time your travels to coincide with low volume SC usage. If you don't like having the herd charging when you want to, don't be a part of the herd. I never have seen Harris full. Usually 4 or 5. I saw Mountain View full once, waited a whole minute before someone pulled out.

I know. There will always be a bunch of people who "have to" use SCs after work. Well, then you have to put up with crowding, standing in line, and complaining that Tesla doesn't have enough chargers.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but it would be nice if the in-car user interface gave us Supercharger usage information, like the chargepoint app does. Or at least have that available in ev trip planner.

 

[ecarfan]

From posts in other threads, it appears the California buildout is starting with expansions at Barstow and Harris Ranch in addition to Rocklin mentioned above.

Yep. I am starting to see a pattern here, with Tesla expanding existing California Supercharger locations. We now know that Harris Ranch, Barstow, Dublin, and Rocklin are being expanded.

And that seems like a smart way to expand the Supercharger network: doing deals with the property owners they currently have agreements with to expand an existing site as opposed to finding a new site to build a Supercharger.

Yes, there are still gaps in the Supercharger network that need to be filled in, where new Supercharger locations are needed. But in many parts of California there are no gaps, just not enough charge pedestals at a specific location.

 

[4SUPER9]

And that seems like a smart way to expand the Supercharger network: doing deals with the property owners they currently have agreements with to expand an existing site as opposed to finding a new site to build a Supercharger.

Yes, there are still gaps in the Supercharger network that need to be filled in, where new Supercharger locations are needed. But in many parts of California there are no gaps, just not enough charge pedestals at a specific location.

Yes, this does make sense, and for the immediate future, this is a smart way to go, as it is an "easy" fix. At the same time, it would be nice to have other locations as a protection if one goes down.

 

[roblab]

I agree, but it would be nice if the in-car user interface gave us Supercharger usage information, like the chargepoint app does. Or at least have that available in ev trip planner.

My only thought on an in-car charger usage interface is that it can't tell you anything. By the time you got to the SC, everything changes. Cars move in and out every three minutes. Charger interface would not tell you how many are in line, waiting, nor the charge state of the plugged-in cars, nor where the owners are and how long they plan to leave their cars charging (to 100%??) What do YOU think such an interface could tell you? I can tell you right now that if you go to Dublin on Sat afternoon, it will be full. With no interface needed.

I think someone would use the app while they are several miles out, where they could make a course change and go to a different SC. Otherwise, why ask? And in thirty minutes, there could be ten less cars, or ten more. No way to tell.

 

[SMAlset]

Just to report in on the Gilroy SC location. It's also pretty busy at times. Seen it with all 10 stalls filled. 6 in one section and 4 in another. Today we noticed across from the 6-section that they have utility markings on the ground. Looks to be for additional stalls (sorry didn't think to count) along with a trench marking--for power I assume. So that would correspond to the added charging in Gilroy on the SC update map.

BTW for anyone traveling along 101 this weekend (especially for Mother's Day) and planning on stopping at Gilroy, according to Tesla when we called in to report really slow charging in 1a and 1b we were told there are known problems with Stalls 1a & b, and 2a & b (far left ones facing the chargers). It sure would be nice if there was some way that chargers needing service could be ID'd before pulling into them.

BTW first attempt in 1a looked fine initially although when inserting the charger we saw a blue ring which quickly turned red then green and stayed flashing green. Looked ok at 51 kWh so went for a walk but came back less than 10 min later to find charging had stopped and an alert on the screen. Other attempts never got past 14kWh. 1b had a similar result--time estimated over 2 hrs 30 min. Tried another stall and within a short few minutes got Alert Unable to Charge Unplug and Try Again. That's when we called the Tesla number and found out the status of the 4 stalls. Charging in another section we were getting 74kWh.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Most of Tesla's Supercharger crowding is caused by locals charging there, rather than their homes.

I was just at a normally crowded SuperCharger at San Diego,Qualcomm. Met a rather entitled owner who said he lived only 4 miles away, but prefered to wait in line for a spot, rather than charge at home where it was not free.
I was there for about 20 minutes for enought to get back to Canyon Lake, and very few of the plugged in cars were moved. Maybe many of the employees were pluging in and leaving their cars there while they went to work.
If customers used the Superchargers as intended, for long distance remote traveling, most of the problem would vanish over night.
Saw the same thing at Whole Foods parking spaces. Customers would just plug in for some free juice while getting their normal shopping done. Always gonna be a line for free stuff...

I agree. There needs to be an economic solution: Make us pay for the energy. Many years ago I took economics at CSU San Bernardino. We read a book titled TNSTAAFL. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Which is about to change with VW's Dieselgate settlement spending -- $370 million over the next 2.5 years just on EV charging infrastructure to be followed by a continuing buildout for at least 7.5 years after that.

Thank you. I have been a big fan of Ferdinand Porsche's People's Car (The Volks Auto or Volks Wagen) forever, and I wish the current management of Porsche/Volkswagen the best.
Could you possible enlighten all of us as to the plans of VW on Tesla owner's charging needs?

 

[Vern Padgett]

When I took delivery more than 4 years ago, there were 6 Superchargers in the country

Thank you for buying early. I wish I had done that too. Or I wish I had at least bought a used Model S three years ago.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Of course there are people who cannot charge at home (renting an apartment for example). There are also people who simply want free fuel. Then there are those who charge up to 100% even when it's not necessary. It's interesting to note that the superchargers that are crowded are the ones in the two big metropolitan areas where many Tesla owners live: the greater bay area and L.A. areas. As for the crowded superchargers in the big metropolitan areas, how about if Tesla were to charge a per-minute fee for access during peak times. That would encourage locals who can charge at a different time, to do so, or to plug in for a shorter amount of time.

Yes absolutely true.

If everyone would be courteous and avoid staying any longer than necessary when the stations are crowded, and when possible plug in during off-peak times, I think that would go a long way toward remedying the issue.

F*ck that idea. Charge money. Then people will be courteous.

 

[Vern Padgett]

It only makes sense to Supercharge for the trip home just to be safe or to grab a bite to eat while getting some charge. So, Tesla needs to address these continued uses of Superchargers for those who might not "need" a charge but would like some insurance for the drive home. ... These folks patiently charge to 95-100% using ICE mentality. Until Tesla can figure out a fool-proof way to communicate to all owners the concept of "just enough plus a modest buffer," there will be continued congestion. Those last 30-50 miles slow down Supercharger turnover.

How about this plan: Charge the current rate for electricity for any charge past 80%. So that would be 48c per kW during the day in the Los Angeles County area, or half that in evening. Make sense?