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WHERE is the QA in Tesla?

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by habanero69, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. habanero69

    habanero69 I Dont Need Cialis. I Drive an EV.

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    What I continue to not understand is WHY QA is not doing a better job at catching issues BEFORE the car leaves the factory? We tend to see the same issues over and over here. I know these forums mostly show the cars with problems as those that have zero probably don't post as much, although I do see a fair amount of them. That said, do they not have some sort of software that tracks the issues found at delivery and provide feedback to the factory to help figure out why the same issues keep occurring?

    What about the QC checks AT the factory. I have seen horror stories on here that you almost have to assume they didn't look at the car at all, or it fell off the train and humpty dumpty put it back together best they could prior to customer delivery. My car had several items that would/should have be very easy to tell were bad before it left the factory. 1) no voice recognition. Ended up have to replace MCU after replacing bluetooth AND media ECU didn't fix, 2) rear taillights/brake light module replacement as they didn't work/light. Both of those most likely didn't work when the car left the factory so why were they not found? Is there not a 100 point inspection on the obvious? I also had mis-aligned trim. Do they not have a gauge or method to detect this. Heck, my bare naked eye spotted from 5 feet away.

    I just think that QA is practically non existent and/or they are not getting the feedback from dealers trying to prepare for delivery and are finding these issues OVER AND OVER. That still doesn't explain why a car would leave the factory with no voice and no tail lights. SURELY someone is supposed to check or hook the car up to a computer that can run tests on the systems.

    I just think this is a reasonably simple thing to fix. I've been in a QA capacity enough of my career that even I could probably improve it for them.


    Elon, WHERE IS YOUR QA and accountability for your factory workers releasing cars for delivery that clearly have obvious issues that a customer should never see on a car worth $60k+ let alone those doing the 150K+ versions...

    Rant off.
     
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  2. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    Yea, we do hear too many issues that should have never left the factory.
    I am one of those that picked up my new 60D w/o ANY issue. Loved it! , and then the next day noticed the front fender off a bit on one side. So small I didn't see it on P/U day. Now of course it bothers me because I know it's there :(
    Tesla gets ALOT of leeway and loyalty for being a new company, one that fixes problems often w/o argument.
    My car is in for service now and I have an 85 loaner. (Supercharger problem) I was at the SC this morning for 5 minutes and gone. That kind of service is so rare as to be non-existent. This is why I am so patient with Tesla and did not complain that it took 2 months for the appt. It helps that i did not go on any long SC'er trips the last 2 months
     
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  3. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

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    I completely agree and don't see any excuse for it. My theory is that QA is just overwhelmed and can't keep up and someone or group has decided to push the issues off to service centers. But of course, most of them are overwhelmed as well.

    I think this is just case of growing pains; too much too fast. Should not be an excuse though.
     
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  4. Mknac

    Mknac Member

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    When I purchased my MS I had buyers remorse because of the price. Then I started hanging out on these forums and began to actually feel sick thinking I had just made the worst decision of my life reading all the problems people were having.

    Eight weeks into my MS I have only had one problem; Slacker error code which Tesla fixed about six hours after I called my local service center.

    I love my MS. The other day a beautiful red Maserati pulled up next to me at a red light. I remember thinking nice looking car but it's only a Maserati and I'm in a Tesla. :)

    I hope everyone has the same experience but do realize that sometimes a car isn't but together well.

    Hopefully Tesla fixes issues people experience with their cars in a timely manner.

    If you received an exceptionally bad build most states have "lemon" laws. However these laws might be affected by Tesla's business model especially in states where Tesla is prohibited from selling.
     
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  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Of course Tesla tracks QA issues. And of course online forums are far more likely to attract complaints than from owners than owners posting "Another day of ownership with no problems". And of course Tesla does not make perfect vehicles. Complaints posted here are real and they are significant. Whether they are significant than most other manufacturers I don't know. Tesla is a new car company trying to make a type of vehicle that has never existed before (long range BEV) while also introducing new features that have never been offered before in a car (Falcon Wing doors, powered front doors, massive touchscreen interface, industry leading self-driving features, etc.) as well as trying to build out a global sales and support network and fast DC charging. So there are going to be issues.

    Sorry you had problems with your new Tesla. They will be fixed. To say that "QA is practically non-existent" is a gross exaggeration.
     
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  6. habanero69

    habanero69 I Dont Need Cialis. I Drive an EV.

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    #6 habanero69, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    Then how do you explain so may cars with such obvious defects delivered to delivery centers and then attempted to be delivered to customers. OK, you let the factory QA off (which I personally say is BS). Why didn't my develery center bother to see if even the tail lights worked. You say it's not their job; if it's not MAYBE it should be. I drove BMW's for 15 years prior to my S and every single one had a dealer inspection sheet signed off that they had looked at hundreds of items such as tail lights and found no issues (maybe they didn't even do the checks, but I never had a problem with an item on the list). I never took delivery on a single BMW with even one issue such as what I see and hear on these forums; not one strip of chrome was off 1mm. You might have gotten lucky, but plenty of us have not. I consider it practicality non-existent and NOT a gross exaggeration. YMMV.
     
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  7. gabeincal

    gabeincal Member

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    ^^^^^^

    THAT!
     
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  8. outie

    outie Member

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    That's why forum members put up delivery checklist for both S and X... you are the QA. It's part of the Tesla experience.
     
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  9. habanero69

    habanero69 I Dont Need Cialis. I Drive an EV.

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    And to my fault, I had one with me. BUT then I saw the car. And haze/tears filled my eyes. :eek: I saw zero cosmetic issues of which I was most worried so that further made me forget the checklist. o_O I took a test ride. It was fine. I couldn't have known the tail lights didn't work from that. I did know the voice rec didn't work. They put that on their list to fix as I didn't see that as a show stopper. My call of course. Only when wife followed me home in her car and she videoed the left brake light out and the right brake light flickering did I know there was a problem. Called and they said the would set up service appoint and call back, which they did.

    I failed with my checklist as my emotions took over after waiting 2 months for the car and it "looked" perfect. Next time I guess I will really wear my QA hat and do a better job. I'd like to think by then I won't have to....
     
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  10. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Tesla has had this problem since day one. Why? I don't know. It gets worse around end of Q...

    My guess is that they are still trying to figure out how to manufacture cars in bulk with the same level of quality on each and every one. Furthermore, I also think that the factory QAs goals are changed based on the relationship to quarter end and will push issues off to the service center in an effort to get the sale legally recorded... Is that right? I suppose that depends on your perspective on the matter. Tesla has to balance the need to show wall street that it's making cars as fast as it can versus making sure each and every car that leaves the factory is perfect. Given Teslas relatively young age as a company and the immense pressure on the stock to do well, I think Tesla has to push the envelope more than it otherwise would need to. This leads to poor quality at times.

    I think overall Tesla does a good job at remedying these issues but in the process they overwhelm their service center, and loaner capacity making for a less than positive post delivery experience. However, from Tesla's perspective, at that point the sale is recorded and while I'm not saying they don't care about their customers because that's simply not true or fair, from a business perspective it does make sense.

    Tesla will continue to get better at this as time goes on, that's what experience will do for them. It would be nice though if the service centers would be appropriately expanded to account for this additional load for post production QC...

    Jeff
     
  11. gabeincal

    gabeincal Member

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    When we picked our MS60 up in Fremont, I made an effort to not get emotional and focus on problems as I knew there would be 1 or 2. Luckily I had 3 other people with me looking for imperfections of which there was quite a few (over 60)...
     
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  12. Darren Donovan

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    That's why I held off on getting a MS, too many issues with NEW Tesla vehicles, let alone CPO. I was so tempted to jump into the end if quarter fire sale, but I am not gonna tolerate my new car "likely" afflicted with these problems. I just find it funny to see the "reasons/excuses" accorded Tesla: Elon has a lot on his plate with Tesla, Solar City, Space X, giga factory, it's still a young company learning how to build cars, it's not actually a "car" company but is a battery/tech company making cars, ....... I think that if they're overwhelmed, then they need to slow down, get things right, then ramp up gradually. I hope, but don't think it's likely, that the Model 3 will be better. That's a big concern of mine, because the Model 3 cannot afford to have these S and X issues.
     
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  13. iwannam3

    iwannam3 Member

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    Is Tesla following the GM model of cramming errors through the production line and dealing (or not dealing) with them later and not following the Toyota model of stopping the line, tracing back the cause of the problem and fixing it right then? They got the NUMMI facility, but are they acting like the old GM model and not Toyotas? Are there any assembly line workers on this site that can discuss the reality of the QA/QC on the assembly line? What is the turnover rate? Is the training adequate? The owners are excited and proud of their Tesla, is it just a crappy $17/hour job for the assembly workers?
     
  14. strider

    strider Active Member

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    QA has definitely slipped. Our (very early) Model S has been relatively trouble free but a coworker bought a Model S a couple months ago. It has been a complete basket case. It's been at the SC more than at his house. There is simply NO excuse for that - the car just hasn't changed that much in 4 years for them to still be having basic assembly problems. I am embarrassed every time I see him as my raving about my Teslas helped convince him to buy one.

    Reality is catching up w/ Tesla. They are a cash furnace and they need to stay in Wall Street's good graces to continue to access cheap funding. Wall Street only cares about sales/deliveries and so Tesla is incentivized to ship every car they possibly can and let the SC's deal with it, especially as it nears end of quarter. It's a simple matter of incentives driving behavior and it's only going to get worse if they merge w/ Solar City as they will need even more funding to remain a going concern.
     
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  15. Pdub2015

    Pdub2015 Member

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    You lost me with that second paragraph.
     
  16. gabeincal

    gabeincal Member

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    This is true everywhere in any industry for public companies. And this is the reason why all software companies release buggy SW, and car companies try to skim on details. Some more, some less.
     
  17. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I never said this was unique to Tesla. Wall Street tracks a very narrow set of metrics and companies will try to optimize those. Right now, cheap funding is more important for Tesla than high customer satisfaction. They have no competition so consumers have no choice but to buy a Tesla if they're in the market. Some day that will change as Tesla's need for outside funding goes down and they'll need to differentiate themselves from competition that will come eventually.
     
  18. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    Our personal sample is only 2, but, I have to agree that quality control at Tesla leaves a lot to be desired. Love the cars, but both cars had minor paint defects that were visible on a quick walk around. There are a host of other issues that the latest car is going in for on Monday. None of the issues are 'tech' related, they are all basic, mechanical issues. Owning a Tesla can be trying at times.
     
  19. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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    It will be interesting to see how good the quality for the Model 3 is during early shipments since Tesla employees get first priority on deliveries. Lots of extra QA inspectors:)
     
  20. habanero69

    habanero69 I Dont Need Cialis. I Drive an EV.

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    That should prove very interesting. Can you imagine being an employee and refusing your car at delivery because of QA issues? :eek: You might get a pink slip at delivery too. :rolleyes:
     

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