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Where is the version of the autonomous software used in October's video?

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Dickerns, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Dickerns

    Dickerns Member

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    In October 2016, Tesla released a video showcasing the full self-driving capability of a Model X and it was very impressive. I canceled my ICE car order which was due to be delivered in late December and immediately ordered a Model S P100D. I assumed then that the codebase behind the FSD capability shown in the video was in decent shape, but it needed to go thorough testing before being released to the public and therefore I accepted AP1 parity not being available until December 2016. In fact, I commended Tesla for doing its due diligence to ensure quality and not release UNSAFE features to its consumers.

    I took delivery of my Model S on December 22 and I've driven it only twice. I drove it home on delivery day and parked in the garage and a week later, I drove it to an XPEL installer and the process was supposed to take only 5 days, but unfortunately, I won't get my car back until the middle of next week because, for the goal package, they have to apply several layers of coating and that takes a bit longer. Oh, while there, the windows will be tinted as well.

    I heard about the recent release of AP2 which was pushed to 1000 owners on new year's eve and the feedback has not been good at all. First, many owners are claiming that AP1 parity is not even close to being reached and then, there are a lot of safety concerns being raised.

    Where is the FSD codebase running the Model X in the October video? I expected a little over two months to have been enough time to do thorough testing and fix some defects to safely enable AP1 features.

    Tesla, what's going on? Talk to your supporters and tell us the truth. When can we expect at least AP1 parity?
     
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  2. Derek Kessler

    Derek Kessler Member

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    FSD is not ready yet. Musk tweeted that they want hundreds of millions of miles worth of data, which will take several months.

    Also, a thing you are now aquatinted with when it comes to Tesla: their idea of deadlines is purely conceptual and almost always overly optimistic. Especially anything that Musk tweets.
     
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  3. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

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    Just watched the Steve Jobs movie again. There are some striking similarities in the vaporware department.
     
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  4. Dickerns

    Dickerns Member

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    Tesla can get away with this because there is no competition. When I read on the Tesla website that AP1 parity would be attained by December 2016, I believed it and so did many other owners. I can clearly understand why some owners are frustrated with Tesla for releasing the first version of AP2 with a lot of defects. I am appalled that some other owners would say that those who keep expressing their disappointment with the first incarnation of AP2 should just go the ICE route if they're not happy. That is absurd!

    If it is true that Tesla does not respect deadlines, then that's very disappointing.
     
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  5. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Many recent threads on this subject. I, like you, can't help but feel I got scammed.

    This greatly detracts from my Tesla ownership experience thus far and has forced me to temper my enthusiasm and caution people who ask me if they should purchase "a self-driving car." I ask them to wait on purchasing a Tesla despite the supercharger fees that are starting in April 2017.
     
  6. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Tesla has never officially announced hard dates for any Autopilot functionality. Please point me to a Tesla press release, blog post, or Elon tweet that promises a date if I'm wrong. All dates discussed are target dates, not promises. In particular, that full autonomous video we all saw could take years to be released. Years. Tesla has not promised any date for that at all.

    If this is distressing to you, please readjust your expectations, or get a new car. It is what it is.

    Tesla has a history of promising features, but not committing to hard dates. Eventually we get the features, but usually not in the time many of us would like.
     
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  7. Dickerns

    Dickerns Member

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    I'm still very excited about my Model S, but I probably could have waited another year or two. I was going to get a 2017 Panamera Turbo and then, I heard the AP2.0 announcement, watched the FSD video and I was sold! I don't regret my decision, but I am concerned that the features that I was looking forward to the most might not be ready for safe use until months from now.

    Perhaps, Tesla should consider exposing their FSD APIs to developers so we can create robust implementations that will benefit the whole Tesla community.
     
  8. Dickerns

    Dickerns Member

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    I'm a new owner and obviously, you know more about Tesla than I do. Thanks for sharing Tesla owners ought to be stoic or they should get other cars.
    Seriously, I'm excited about my car or I would not have made such a huge investment by getting a fully loaded P100D. However, hearing that the recently released AP2 software has quite a number of defects where some of them impact safety leads me to conclude that the FSD video and the statement on the Tesla website to deliver AP1 parity by December 2016 were misleading.
    Now that you've shared such great insights with me, I'll lower my expectations next time.
     
    • Like x 5
  9. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    Probably no consolation, but i bought my MS without any (at that time) announcements as to imminent software enhancements.

    In the time since I ordered it (about 14 months ago) it has gained self-parking (bit of a mixed bag), summon, and the ability to react to car-in-front-of-car-in-front. AP and TACC have got a lot smoother. just recently it has gained the ability for my/wifee's fobs to select profile on entry (probably should have had that at launch but, hey, its an example of continued OTA upgrades). Probably a bunch of other things that I have forgotten, plus a huge number of smaller things.

    For me, it has also "gained" a complete change of screen styling which I dislike (old eyes, much harder for me and wifee to read)

    Can't say I've ever had any upgrade, paid or otherwise, in any car I've owned before. VW didn't even offer me a SatNav maps update ...

    Personally I really like the fact that improvements continue to be provided. I wish that some were configurable (e.g. screen styling), and I think that the QA on bugs on the updates falls WAY below what is acceptable. But those are all things which a young company can improve on over time, so I'm not despondent about the areas that disappoint me. If ever I am I can just jump in and do a Launch or two!
     
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  10. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Last night, Elon tweeted:

    "New rev for Autopilot HW2 rolling out Mon to first 1000 & to rest of fleet in shadow mode. Also improves HW1 and enables Ludicrous+." and "If all looks good, HW2 Autopilot functionality will switch from shadow to active mode by end of week for cars beyond initial 1000"

    He seems to assume that we know what shadow mode means. I presume it means the AP computer system is turned on and processing real time driving data, but doesn't drive for you. It's a training mode.

    And just to complete my earlier statement about timelines, notice how Elon couches his timelines. "If all looks good ...". Based on that I would hope for AP2 to start being rolled out beyond the initial 1000 in 2 weeks, knowing that even that date could slip.
     
  11. cdub

    cdub Future Model 3 owner / Current original Leaf owner

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    Fsd and AP1 are completely different things.

    Capabilities like in that FSD video are at least a year out. Elon said he'd demo cross country FSD by end of 2017.

    AP1 parity and beyond within weeks or months.
     
  12. animorph

    animorph Member

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    I think it is quite likely that the video demo used software that was trained exclusively for that demo, not general purpose driving. It demonstrates the possibilities of the system, but may have no relation to the expected final software. Kind of like a Model 3 mock-up with no drive train.
     
  13. Dickerns

    Dickerns Member

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    Wow! One thing I can say is that Tesla owners are loyalists and advocates of Tesla. It seems no one is allowed to be critical of Tesla even when previously set expectations are not met. There's no question that Tesla is ahead of everyone else in terms of what they're doing in the auto industry and ought to be encouraged and commended. However, as an owner, I do not subscribe to the notion that I should count my blessings for having a car that will continue to enhance itself in time and if there are obstacles along the way, I should ALWAYS overlook them or get an ICE car if I am incapable of being EXTREMELY tolerant.

    I think if realistic expectations are set and no high severity defects that can jeopardize safety are released with their software, then I will be a happier owner. My advice is that Tesla should under-promise and over-deliver. Perhaps, they should have announced that AP1 parity would be reached by July 2017 and then surprise everyone and release it in April 2017. However, letting people know that AP1 parity could be reached by December 2016 only creates frustration when that expectation is not met.
     
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  14. Spidy

    Spidy Active Member

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    Would you have brought the car in 2016 and taken delivery? Nope. That's exactly why Elon overpromises, because he is unwilling to offer end of the year discounts or spend big money on marketing. So in order to secure enough orders for the 4th quarter Tesla announced AP2.

    Yep. That's what Mercedes did a few years ago.

     
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  15. LastGas

    LastGas Member

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    I find the fan boys, and the anti-fan boys equally tiresome. Tesla is late with the AP2 software. Get on with your lives.
     
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  16. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    And if it is released in January? I think that "Reasonably confident of December delivery" was OK, given that some of AP1 parity is already out.

    I reckon you will find that everyone here will agree with that, and there has been a history of good testing of safety critical features. There has also been a history of the non safety-critical upgrades (e.g. Infotainment) being buggy, which is disappointing. But in the main such things are then fully sorted after a month or so. Personally I'd prefer that Tesla did a better job of QA in the first place, but as a software developer I can also take the view that releasing to public always brings with it a raft of suggestions / ideas / opinions, so maybe releasing something 95% done, gathering the feedback, and then releasing the 110% (of original spec) is one business model.
     
  17. Dstrohl

    Dstrohl Member

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    If you are concerned that the features in that video might not be available for months, you will definitively be disappointed. The only think that has been said is that there might be a demo at the END of 2017 of a coast to coast drive. How long after that until it is actually ready for production is anyone's guess (and there are a lot of them, ranging from "soon" to "decades away" to "never"... All we can say for sure is that it wont happen until after "late 2017".

    In terms of Tesla exposing the FSDC API's, I sincerely hope that doesn't happen for a long time, if ever. The testing involved is WAY outside of what 99.99% of developers can do (simply due to hardware requirements), integration of all of many people's input will cause additional bugs delaying the project even more, and making it much harder to troubleshoot, and I suspect, trying to get it approved through the government(s) involved would also be impossible.

    I would love to see them opening up API's to other things though, getting read only access to some things, and read/write access to non-safety items would be great, allowing for a market to grow up around console plugins, audio upgrades, workflow, scheduling apps, macros, nav add-ons, power use visualizations, 3rd party product integrations, etc...
     
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  18. Doubletap67

    Doubletap67 Member

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    What part of AP1 is already out? I don't consider a limited beta release to 1000 users as meeting that threshold.
     
  19. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    It's a thin, thin line between overpromising and lying. Very thin.

    But it's OK in order to keep sales on target and meet the quarter. Got it...!
     
  20. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    It is? What specifically?
     

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