Which all seasons for m3?

[Avendit]

Given the weather this week I have once again been trying to persuade myself to get some all season tyres.

look stunning, but it waits until the last 30 seconds of the review to point out they aren't available in the UK .

Are there any other UHP all seasons out there that are worth looking at? I'm in Edinburgh, so don't really need full snow tyres (and don't really have space to store a swap), but would like to improve on the P4s's winter capabilities. I'm no ski-er, don't need to get up the Alps, but a bit more safety in ice and snow would be good without compromising the summer much (ie CC2 is a compromise too far for my uses).

I don't think this has been covered much this winter yet (for the model 3, in the UK), but happy for the mods to merge with another thread if I missed it?

 

[pheo]

Cross climate 2s are the ones to beat (not sure of the compromise you talk of?). Vrededstein Quatrac very good too by all accounts.

 

[CaptFish2003]

I run the CC2. They are working in the snow and I had no issues in the summer.
Fit and forget thinking about tyres.

 

[MovingSouth]

(ie CC2 is a compromise too far for my uses).

Look at his other video:

Cross climate 2 seems to be a very good compromise to me for road use in NW Europe. We've been running a set for 18 months and they've been great in snow and summer, as per his test. If you really need UHP tyres (say for some track use) then there's an argument that you need UHP summer tyres. Do you ever need UHP winter tyres?

 

[Avendit]

Cross climate 2s are the ones to beat (not sure of the compromise you talk of?). Vrededstein Quatrac very good too by all accounts.

If my summer P4s's are 99/1 in favor of summer, I see CC2's as 50/50 summer winter. I think I'm looking for something around 75/25 summer performance, but still safe in winter (unlike the P4s's).

Look at his other video:

Cross climate 2 seems to be a very good compromise to me for road use in NW Europe. We've been running a set for 18 months and they've been great in snow and summer, as per his test. If you really need UHP tyres (say for some track use) then there's an argument that you need UHP summer tyres. Do you ever need UHP winter tyres?

Pretty sure that is the same video?

CC2's are a very sensible balance of snow and summer capability, but my hope is for more the P4s AS balance. If the CC2's are a 50/50 balance of capable all year round, my preference is to reduce that winter capability to a 'usable' rating to increase summer capability, ie a 75/25 weighting towards summer. Like I said, I'm Edinburgh, not Braemar and need to be able to safely get around in the winter, I don't really care about winter performance - but do want to be able to push on like I do on the summer P4s's in the summer.

I guess what I'm saying is I want to extend the abilities in the cold so this doesn't happen to me, but without really taking a hit in the summer. CC2's would be too much of a compromise on a P- for the summer I think, but the PS4AS possibly wouldn't be. If you could get them .

Doesn't sound like there is anything in the same category available in the UK tho .

 

[Cilonen]

I recently got the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 H750s for my M3LR - the 2022 Tyre Reviews All Season test placed them 2nd behind the CC2, but top in the "mild weather" ratings (i.e, reduce the weighting for snow use). Their worst rating was for rolling resistance, but it's still better than a lot of the competition, and this is always likely to be a compromise for switching to All-Seasons.

As we rarely get snow in my part of the Midlands - and I have a set of AutoSocks just in case we do - I felt these were a better option, especially as they were actually available to buy!

Run them for 3 weeks now, and the wet grip is phenomenal! Not noticed any drop off in dry grip compared to the PS4s either. Noise level is the same overall as the PS4 acoustic (measured with a sound meter in the cabin), but there is a higher pitch to the noise noticeable at motorway speeds. This may drop off after some more miles, but most of the CC2 owners have reported similar IIRC.

Added bonus was 15% off a set during BF, so I paid less than £580 fitted.

 

[SageBrush]

I think I'm looking for something around 75/25 summer performance,

I suggest starting with a recalibration of your expectations and scale. The absolute best winter tyres in the winter are perhaps 50% of UHP summer (in the summer.)
CC2 are perhaps 50 - 70% of the best winter tyres, in the winter. That words out to CC2 in the winter being around 25% of UHP summer in the summer.

Winter performance of a tyre that is less than CC2 is not going to be safe in your locale

 

[Avendit]

I suggest starting with a recalibration of your expectations. The absolute best winter tyres in the winter are perhaps 50% of UHP summer (in the summer.)
CC2 are perhaps 50 - 70% of the best winter tyres, in the winter. That words out to CC2 in the winter being around 25% of UHP summer in the summer.

Winter performance of a tyre in the winter that is less than CC2 is not going to be safe.

I'd suggest taking the 15 mins to watch the video linked; and I quote 'if the p4s is a 10, the pilot 4s all seasons are a 9.5'. Which reads as 95% of an UHP to me?

But unavailable in the UK this year :sadface:.

I do have a set of hankook kinergy on order for fitting Friday, will see how they do, thanks @Cilonen . Although, as previous years, with the weight of the Tesla on them, the P4s are surprisingly kind of OK as long as treated very carefully.

 

[SageBrush]

Which reads as 95% of an UHP to me?

If best stopping distance is 100 feet, then 95% would be 95 feet.
Tesla Model 3 with UHP tyres in the summer stop in 133 feet from 60 - 0 mph.

A dedicated winter tyre as tested here

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer | Edmunds

Are snow tires a disaster on dry pavement? And how about summer tires in the snow? Should you just buy all-season rubber and not worry about the weather? These are just a few of the questions we tried to...

www.edmunds.com

stops in 156 feet from 40 -> 0. A 60 -> 0 test would have 225% as much kinetic energy, so the stopping distance is about 350 feet.
So I emphasize -- that is a new winter tyre, which only manages 38% of your UHP summer performance

 

[Avendit]

If best stopping distance is 100 feet, then 95% would be 95 feet.
Tesla Model 3 with UHP tyres in the summer stop in 133 feet from 60 - 0 mph.

A dedicated winter tyre as tested here

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer | Edmunds

Are snow tires a disaster on dry pavement? And how about summer tires in the snow? Should you just buy all-season rubber and not worry about the weather? These are just a few of the questions we tried to...

www.edmunds.com

stops in 156 feet from 40 -> 0. A 60 -> 0 test would have 225% as much kinetic energy, so the stopping distance is about 350 feet.
So I emphasize -- that is a new winter tyre, which only manages 38% of your UHP summer performance

You know this thread isn't really about winter tyres? We are looking at all season tyres with a different balance of requirements?

Screen shot of of the video linked, litteraly from mid thread:

Looking at the braking test numbers: summer UHP 120ft, UHP all season 125ft, all season CC2 133, winter 160.
Taking summer as the 100% base, others in that order are , 4%, 10%, 33% worse.


Snow performance:

x-ice is best @35ft, then cc2@37ft, UHP all seasons 45ft and summer 120. That's
x-ice at 100%, then in that order 5%, 28% and 342% worse.

So in the summer the UHP all seasons give 4% over summers, but gain 314% in the winter and doesn't fall apart in 1000 summer miles. That's a good trade off.

 

[Cilonen]

I'd suggest taking the 15 mins to watch the video linked; and I quote 'if the p4s is a 10, the pilot 4s all seasons are a 9.5'. Which reads as 95% of an UHP to me?

But unavailable in the UK this year :sadface:.

I do have a set of hankook kinergy on order for fitting Friday, will see how they do, thanks @Cilonen . Although, as previous years, with the weight of the Tesla on them, the P4s are surprisingly kind of OK as long as treated very carefully.

Just beware, they do take a good 100+ miles to scrub in - prior to that they have a bit of spin on pulling away in the wet, and some lateral tail slide on damp/wet junctions if pressing ahead too quickly (i.e. exactly as you would on the PS4s in warmer conditions). It is readily noticeable, so easy enough to correct before you regret it!

 

[SageBrush]

You know this thread isn't really about winter tyres?

Yes. My point is that winter tyres meet your "25" requirement (by a little), as does the CC2 just barely. Forget about it for the AS tyres

 

[Avendit]

Just beware, they do take a good 100+ miles to scrub in - prior to that they have a bit of spin on pulling away in the wet, and some lateral tail slide on damp/wet junctions if pressing ahead too quickly (i.e. exactly as you would on the PS4s in warmer conditions). It is readily noticeable, so easy enough to correct before you regret it!

Excellent! Erm, I mean I'll watch out for that.

 

[yessuz]

just fitted all 4 CC2s. will see how it will last or stack up

 

[yessuz]

What I noticed, which is crazy, that tyres now, when steering wheel turned completely to left or completely to right, touch something (just barely). Probably mudflap... Need to investigate

 

[Doudeau]

Thanks for sharing any updates on your experience with CC2s.

I’m currently intending to fit them this month (whilst the prices are much cheaper than Jan when I last contemplated it).

 

[yessuz]

Thanks for sharing any updates on your experience with CC2s.

I’m currently intending to fit them this month (whilst the prices are much cheaper than Jan when I last contemplated it).

It was 80 off when buying 4 tyres in Costco. Just a no brainer... And if you can write off the VAT it is even better

So far I like them as I find them quiet (way better than worn off pilot sport 4s which came as OEM). On Top of that in USA they give 60k mile warranty (vs 40k pilot sports) and since i do 20k a year at least, I hope these will last.

and since it has no pointless foam, in case of puncture is is repairable anywhere (or even with emergency spray).

Win so far - just need to check what it touched (mildly) as there is enough clearance to the arch.

 

[yessuz]

Scrap that. Nothing is touching anything

 

[OneTinyFish]

Just seen this thread: I've got over 13k miles on my CC2s - they're exceptional tyres. Thinking of swapping my M3LR to a M3P and need to know if I can get the CC2's in the 20" size.

They're a fantastic tyre. Less good in the heat, make a bit more noise, but honestly - as good an all rounder as you can hope to get.

 

[MrT3]

Thinking of swapping my M3LR to a M3P and need to know if I can get the CC2's in the 20" size.

They do some 20" sizes but not the size the standard M3P uses.

Whilst they are great for the M3RWD or M3LR, personally I don't understand why you would pay the extra for the M3P and then hamper it with tyres that perform worse in temperatures above 8 deg C in the wet or the dry.