Which direction should Tesla go as a company?

[Brian H]

That's how Porsche does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

How many times has Porsche changed hands? The vanity car route, for Tesla, would likely be a quick slide into the financial graveyard. The upfront costs would exceed margins for far too long.

The way is narrow, and few are chosen. TM got through crises by the skin of Elon's teeth, and is still one medium-size slip away from extinction.

 

[BenTesla]

Tesla has to remain a luxury brand until they can great their cars cheaper. Battery powered EV's can't compete in every market segment (I don't think any but large sedan), the success they'd have would be less then what they can do in the Luxury market. I think Tesla has done a great job with the model S but why create a completely new sedan from scratch? I say drop the "Bluestar" idea and just offer a $30,000 40 kwh Model S when the cost comes down! I think that would save them millions in developing an entirely new car plus marketing. I understand that a smaller car means better range but I'd rather spend money to get the Model S lighter then for a new car. If Tesla comes out with a new Roadster, Model S coupe and an announcement of the new low price for the base model S and they have a future ahead of them.

Speaking of it they should continue to launch their cars in there own events as long as possible for the free advertising. Very Tech company-ish and super cool.

 

[MarkR]

I'm looking forward to the S, but really don't need the size of the sedan, nor do I really want to expense of a Roadster. Bluestar will be perfect if it is stylish and has great range. I hope that Tesla becomes THE car company for all sorts of EVs and shows the world that Americans can produce a car company that is environmentally responsible, economically profitable, technologically advanced, and sells cars that are a blast to drive.

 

[jerry33]

I'm looking forward to the S, but really don't need the size of the sedan, nor do I really want to expense of a Roadster. Bluestar will be perfect if it is stylish and has great range. I hope that Tesla becomes THE car company for all sorts of EVs and shows the world that Americans can produce a car company that is environmentally responsible, economically profitable, technologically advanced, and sells cars that are a blast to drive.

+1 The Bluestar concept seems to me to be the key to acceptance of EVs to the masses. A cheaper Model S, not including battery cost reductions, would just cannibalize the existing market and make Tesla look like a one-trick pony. Not a good way to go.

 

[BenTesla]

+1 The Bluestar concept seems to me to be the key to acceptance of EVs to the masses. A cheaper Model S, not including battery cost reductions, would just cannibalize the existing market and make Tesla look like a one-trick pony. Not a good way to go.

I think Tesla already shown 2 tricks but my point was that they shouldn't do it now. I was making a point that they should be in the luxury market for the for see able future

 

[BenTesla]

Oh and the Model X!! I also think they should build the new roadster on the Model S platform. SAVE MONEY!! We can start taking chanced when the loans are paid back

 

[vfx]

OT! A conversation with a high up Tesla person said Elon wants Tesla to be a brand. Like Porsche does watches and bicycles they would have a design sense they apply to products that will allow them to sell beyond autos.

Not sure exactly how the Porsche design studio does manufacturing in or out of house, but what I did get from the last few days is that Elon wants to do everything in house with Tesla's cars.

 

[Jason S]

Interesting so far.

To BenTesla's points: I think Model X is reusing a lot of Model S tech. Bluestar might be more of an issue because of the platform's size. Here's a reuse idea: the 4WD Model X is using a smaller motor in front -- therefore that smaller motor is prolly the motor for the Bluestar. Incremental steps with the previous step helping pave the way for the next step.

So Bluestar comes out with a 40Kwh pack (using the existing tech in smaller package) baseline and maybe it's performance version uses a higher density or dual pack version (ref the air lithium patent) to power a 4WD version. Maybe each motor does 200hp / 250 torque. The perf version is high cost, maybe equivalent to M5 or Roadster 3.0.

... I'm virtually drooling at such a prospect. I do hope they go that route.

 

[doug]

I think Tesla already shown 2 tricks but my point was that they shouldn't do it now. I was making a point that they should be in the luxury market for the for see able future

I'll agree that Tesla should stay upmarket for the near term. Btw, foreseeable is one word.

I also think they should build the new roadster on the Model S platform. SAVE MONEY!! We can start taking chanced when the loans are paid back

Um, no. The Model S platform is way too huge for a proper roadster. It would be cool to have a Model S with a power retractable hardtop (PRHT), though I'm not sure there would be enough demand to justify dev costs. But at any rate, that's what I'd call a huge convertable, not a roadster. Next gen Roadster discussion goes here: Next gen Roadster

 

[BenTesla]

To Jason S.: Very interesting points but Tesla's financial strength still worries me. To be honest I think Franz and Elon already have the plans for the Bluestar ready. But again, I just hope Tesla stays with luxury cars. I think eventually the rest of the auto industry is going to start to compete more directly so luxury cars lets us stay competitive. Selling mass market cars is one thing but should be with luxury elements. No one is going to buy another Model S if they can get a Bluestar for half the price.

To Jerry33: How would a more affordeble Model S hurt the Model S in any way? I think it would be a great way to increase the number of people who return to buy the Model S again. I don't think anyone who bought/will buy the Model S is expecting the price to stay the same forever.

 

[vfx]

... To be honest I think Franz and Elon already have the plans for the Bluestar ready. ...

Not even close. They don't even have a in house name for it yet (Bluestar was something I came up with). At the point Tesla is focused on all those things people are worried about that are not included with the immediate delivery of the Model S. Charging, consoles, and accessories and a bit of Model X.

 

[Jason S]

No one is going to buy another Model S if they can get a Bluestar for half the price.

Pfff -- I'll rephrase that with another car company: nobody is gonna buy a 7-series when a 3-series is half the price. (5-series? I really don't know the price ranges very well for BMWs)

Point being that people do buy the larger cars with more room and better features. I don't expect Bluestar base model (the 1/2 price version) to have 300+ hp/torque like the 85Kwh Model S. I do expect it to compete well with whatever happens to be in the same class.

 

[vfx]

... I don't expect Bluestar base model (the 1/2 price version) to have 300+ hp/torque like the 85Kwh Model S. I do expect it to compete well with whatever happens to be in the same class.

But why not? Pricing? Availability of raw materials? Expectations?

 

[Jason S]

Smaller car, lower pricing, I don't expect the larger motor to be in it. I also don't expect the base Bluestar to carry around 85Kwh of energy.

Takes a lot of batteries with current tech to power the 300+ hp motor. Perf version costs more for some reason too, I assume that's partly raw materials cost for the even larger inverter and motor.

 

[jerry33]

How would a more affordeble Model S hurt the Model S in any way? I think it would be a great way to increase the number of people who return to buy the Model S again.

What I read from your post was that there would be a premium Model S (the current one) and a $30K Model S. If there was a $30K Model S it would certainly eat into the sales of the premium Model S.

I don't think anyone who bought/will buy the Model S is expecting the price to stay the same forever.

I don't know about that. Apple has kept their computer prices almost the same for many years now by adding performance and features to the top end line. Toyota has done the same to the Prius by adding size bloat. My expectation is that Tesla will do the same. The only cost reduction would come from lower battery cost and even then they might just increase the battery size and keep the price the same.

 

[vfx]

Smaller car, lower pricing, I don't expect the larger motor to be in it. I also don't expect the base Bluestar to carry around 85Kwh of energy..

Well I don't agree but ultimately Elon will be the decider.

 

[BenTesla]

To Jerry33: I don't think it would hurt the sales of the premium version cause your looking at a very different car with different features and 'amenities'. If your offering a $30,000 car people are expecting less and would probably get less. My post was to say that you should use the savings from not making a new platform, marketing a new car and development in battery technology to offer the $57,000 dollar Model S with a few small changes. Then offer another Battery option to fill out their line up. I don't think I did a good enough job of explaining that in my earlier post.

 

[daniel]

The Model S is much too big a car for me. That means there are others as well who would not buy that large a car. It was the right step to take after the Roadster. Four years ago Tesla did not have the money to built the Model S. The Roadster provided that money by showing what Tesla could accomplish and opening the door to investment and loans. So they dook a step downscale. Less-expensive car, appealing to a wider customer base, but still expensive.

I bought the Roadster because I could afford it. But my ideal car would have been the Bluestar: Smaller than the S (Civic size would be ideal for me) with a 160-mile range and performance in the economy family car range. (I love the power of the Roadster, but I don't need it and would have preferred a less-expensive car, as long as it was electric.)

So Bluestar is definitely the way to go to expand the Tesla brand. I'm a little disappointed they're building the Model X before Bluestar, but I understand the reasoning. They're using a lot of the Model S development to fill another big niche at reduced deselopment cost. But to argue against Bluestar is to suggest that Tesla should always remain a small and marginal company that has minimal impact on transportation overall. One of the reasons I support Tesla so strongly is Elon's vision to make a significant impact on transportation by building a car that the middle class can afford.

 

[jerry33]

To Jerry33: I don't think it would hurt the sales of the premium version cause your looking at a very different car with different features and 'amenities'. If your offering a $30,000 car people are expecting less and would probably get less. My post was to say that you should use the savings from not making a new platform, marketing a new car and development in battery technology to offer the $57,000 dollar Model S with a few small changes. Then offer another Battery option to fill out their line up. I don't think I did a good enough job of explaining that in my earlier post.

I'm still not sold. If you use the same platform, then you have the same size vehicle. There are a lot of people that just won't purchase a big boat car like the Model S. I wouldn't do so except that I don't want to wait to enjoy the benefits of a Tesla. Also the only way to get change is to support change. So I'll live with the size even though it won't fit in my garage and will probably get a million dings from parking at work because there will be no room for the person next to me to open their door without hitting the Model S. The white paint stripe is only four inches wide and and the Model S fills in all the space between the white lines.

 

[jerry33]

The Model S is much too big a car for me. That means there are others as well who would not buy that large a car. It was the right step to take after the Roadster. Four years ago Tesla did not have the money to built the Model S. The Roadster provided that money by showing what Tesla could accomplish and opening the door to investment and loans. So they dook a step downscale. Less-expensive car, appealing to a wider customer base, but still expensive.

I bought the Roadster because I could afford it. But my ideal car would have been the Bluestar: Smaller than the S (Civic size would be ideal for me) with a 160-mile range and performance in the economy family car range. (I love the power of the Roadster, but I don't need it and would have preferred a less-expensive car, as long as it was electric.)

So Bluestar is definitely the way to go to expand the Tesla brand. I'm a little disappointed they're building the Model X before Bluestar, but I understand the reasoning. They're using a lot of the Model S development to fill another big niche at reduced deselopment cost. But to argue against Bluestar is to suggest that Tesla should always remain a small and marginal company that has minimal impact on transportation overall. One of the reasons I support Tesla so strongly is Elon's vision to make a significant impact on transportation by building a car that the middle class can afford.

+1 It's like you read my mind (other than that I couldn't even remotely afford a Roadster)