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Which Snows and Why Poll?

Which Snow Poll

  • Michelin X-Ice XI3

    Votes: 98 35.9%
  • Nokian R3

    Votes: 62 22.7%
  • Nokian WR G3

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Nokian WR G4

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Continental ContiWinterContact

    Votes: 12 4.4%
  • Vredestein Wintrac Pro

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Vredestein Quatrac 5 Tires

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Blizzak LM-32

    Votes: 4 1.5%
  • Blizzak LM001

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Pirelli Sottozero 3

    Votes: 25 9.2%
  • Pirelli Sottozero 2

    Votes: 21 7.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 26 9.5%

  • Total voters
    273
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Handling is where they are letting me down. They are a lot more hesitant and "squishy" than the stock rubber... and this is pretty disappointing considering the very high cost of these as well as their pedigree.

I should have bought something else.

You are a brave and honest person to tell it like it is. I made the same mistake for many years, figuring if I was going to put different tires on in the winter, they had better be badass in the snow. Then I hated driving all winter because they felt so imprecise, handled so poorly and had so little driver feedback. I always had more than enough traction, even in the most intense winter storms. I would actually get frustrated when it snowed because everyone was driving so slowly.

About 6 years ago I started buying winter tires that were more competent and more balanced in various winter conditions (including wet and dry pavement). My winter driving pleasure has soared and I think I even like driving in the snow and ice storms better because I have so much more tactile feedback, I can actually tell when my tires are gripping or slipping. With mushy winter tires it felt like they were always slipping a little which made it take longer to detect actual slides. The instantaneous connection to road afforded by performance winter tires has brought the fun back.

The Model 3 is such a brilliant car in the ice and snow it really doesn't need the ultimate winter tire. Or put another way, the ultimate Model 3 winter tire is not the one that provides the absolute best traction in the snow and ice, it's the one that does it all competently and keeps the driver engaged. Because the Model 3 is, by far, the most brilliant car I've driven in the snow and ice.
 
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You are a brave and honest person to tell it like it is. I made the same mistake for many years, figuring if I was going to put different tires on in the winter, they had better be badass in the snow. Then I hated driving all winter because they felt so imprecise, handled so poorly and had so little driver feedback. I always had more than enough traction, even in the most intense winter storms. I would actually get frustrated when it snowed because everyone was driving so slowly.

About 6 years ago I started buying winter tires that were more competent and more balanced in various winter conditions (including wet and dry pavement). My winter driving pleasure has soared and I think I even like driving in the snow and ice storms better because I have so much more tactile feedback, I can actually tell when my tires are gripping or slipping. With mushy winter tires it felt like they were always slipping a little which made it take longer to detect actual slides. The instantaneous connection to road afforded by performance winter tires has brought the fun back.

The Model 3 is such a brilliant car in the ice and snow it really doesn't need the ultimate winter tire. Or put another way, the ultimate Model 3 winter tire is not the one that provides the absolute best traction in the snow and ice, it's the one that does it all competently and keeps the driver engaged. Because the Model 3 is, by far, the most brilliant car I've driven in the snow and ice.

Do you know of a candidate in the stock size for the Model 3 that meets load requirements? Maybe I can complain to the tire shop and see what they can do.
 
I am also a little disappointed in the R3s cold, dry pavement handling, but with the limited winter tire options for the Model 3’s heft, I still think the R3s are currently one of the best options. While I didn’t have high expectations in regards to the dry handling when I initially bought the tires, especially when compared to the stock performance summers, I’ve noticed spirited cornering often leads to me feeling like track mode is enabled (rear wheels feel like they are slipping/want to slip). If I could do it over again, I’d consider AlpinPA4s more seriously (their load index and me not wanting to do research is why I didn’t pursue them more aggressively).

With the above said, and while I know it’s not a fair comparison since the vehicles being compared are different, I don’t think the Nokians are any worse on cold, dry pavement than my previous car’s XIce tires. Both are/were louder than the summer tires they temporarily replaced and both feel/felt floaty when driving outside of crazy conditions. I’d like to play around with the Nokians in blizzard like conditions because I am sure that is where they’ll shine, similar to the XIce.

I am sure I’ve fallen victim to having bought too much “blizzard tire” and not enough “driving in the city winter tire,” which is where my complaints come from. Hell, I had the same complaints with the XIce last year on my previous car! However, I’ll gladly trade the minor handling inconvenience and louder road noise (wonder how much is due to no foam/engine noise?) for the capability to drive safely when the weather gets really nasty.
 
Do you know of a candidate in the stock size for the Model 3 that meets load requirements? Maybe I can complain to the tire shop and see what they can do.

Yes, I'm really liking these in all conditions:

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-240-sottozoro-s2/p/24441

I have them on my Stealth P3D and they are quiet and predictable with good steering feel and tactile feedback. I've had them in a couple of nasty snowstorms with greasy, wet-packed snow and they are very competent. There was a Subaru in front of me with some kind of badass looking winter tires on that was trying to ditch me around and out of the steep mountain hairpins. I could tell he was a competent driver and hitting the hairpins as fast as his setup would allow. Basically rally racing at 20 mph, LOL! The Model 3 was superior in the corners and could match him on the acceleration out of the corner. The low center of gravity reduces weight transfer to the outside tires and the superior and faster reacting electronic stability control is better at holding the line in the corner and putting the power down than any other ski car I've had.

If I had the same kind of badass winter tires I would have left him in the dust. But then I would have to live with them all winter. I'm done with that when there are so many competent winter tires without all the faults.
 
I've had the Sottozero 3 for a few weeks with cold dry, wet and snow conditions. Very pleased with all. In past years when I wasn't as careful about what I put on my Audi A6 it felt like I was driving a Caddy with very squishy winter tires. These perform great on the typical cold dry day plus great grip on snowy days.
FWIW this is what Tesla puts on its 19" winter wheel/tire package:
Model 3 19" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

In the 19" they're basically the same price. I don't see them for the 18" wheel.
$242 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-sottozero-3/p/30054
$253 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-240-sottozoro-s2/p/38769
 
I've had the Sottozero 3 for a few weeks with cold dry, wet and snow conditions. Very pleased with all. In past years when I wasn't as careful about what I put on my Audi A6 it felt like I was driving a Caddy with very squishy winter tires. These perform great on the typical cold dry day plus great grip on snowy days.
FWIW this is what Tesla puts on its 19" winter wheel/tire package:
Model 3 19" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

In the 19" they're basically the same price. I don't see them for the 18" wheel.
$242 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-sottozero-3/p/30054
$253 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-240-sottozoro-s2/p/38769

Anyone know why the 19" tires weigh 2 more lbs. than the 18"? The outside diameter and tread width are the same, the sidewall is shorter.

So it's like a donut with a bigger hole in the middle.
 
I've had the Sottozero 3 for a few weeks with cold dry, wet and snow conditions. Very pleased with all. In past years when I wasn't as careful about what I put on my Audi A6 it felt like I was driving a Caddy with very squishy winter tires. These perform great on the typical cold dry day plus great grip on snowy days.
FWIW this is what Tesla puts on its 19" winter wheel/tire package:
Model 3 19" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

In the 19" they're basically the same price. I don't see them for the 18" wheel.
$242 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-sottozero-3/p/30054
$253 https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-winter-240-sottozoro-s2/p/38769

The S2s are gone in the size I need, the nice guys at the shop offered to call Pirelli to see if it's possible to get them but don't have high hopes this late in the season. Their recommendation at this point is to swap the Nokians for the Blizzak LS0001, it's the more performance oriented Blizzak and they say their Audi/BMW owners are quite happy with it but it doesn't seem to get quite as high a mark as the Pirelli and is quite a bit more expensive.

Their other recommendation is the Michelin X-Ice but they are concerned it will have some of the vagueness that the Nokian is exhibiting.
 
I'm risking it with the Sottozero 3 235/45R18 94V tires. But, I would probably suggest people go with the Sottozero 245/45R18 tires instead. They have a enough load rating and would give the car a tiny bit more ground clearance. :)
I'd recommend the DE version, as the tread width is the same as the 235 and they're lighter!
The 245/45R18 option in the Sottozero 3s is what I decided to go with. Here's my experience with them so far with a couple of comparisons.

The day after we picked up our Model 3, we had one of those snow storms where it was warm enough to melt the snow on the road and then refreeze it followed by a bit more snow on top. The next morning there were dry sections and icy sections covered with a thin layer of snow. Our '03 BMW 330i RWD on Pirelli Sottozero 3s was able to get around okay, with substantial care on the icy/snowy parts. Our Wrangler with nearly worn out Goodyear Duratracs was about the same in 4WD. When I took the Tesla out, I got very sideways a couple of times at around 10MPH and struggled to make it up the hill to our home. I tried one more time about a week later when we got a bit more snow with less ice, and it wasn't quite as bad, but it was still miserable to try and drive.

I considered a lot of different options. If you want a full on snow tire, I'd probably go with the Michelin X-ice XI3; they're very close to the Blizzak WS-80s in the snow and ice, and they're quieter, handle better, and last longer.

If you want a performance winter tire, like I did, the options are very limited in the stock size with the Pirelli Sottozero II probably the best choice, but they don't seem to be rated as well as the 3s. I question how necessary the XL rating is for the Model 3, but a lower load rated tire is obviously not ideal. If you don't mind going up or down a size to either 245/45-18 or 225/45-18, there are a few more options that I personally think are better.

I ended up going with the Sottozero 3s, since I was pretty happy with them on my 330i. They give up a little to Blizzaks or Xice tires in the snow and ice, but they're a lot better in the wet and dry, and feel far more sporty. I went with 245/45-18 since they would be less stretched on the rims and they'd give a few mm more clearance in the snow, and maybe a little more grip around the corners, but they also hurt the acceleration a little bit due to a higher effective gear ratio, and my guess is that they might reduce the range a bit due to additional drag. There are actually 3 different Sottozero 3s in 245/45-18. One is a run flat, one was originally made for Jaguars, and one was originally made for Mercedes. I went with the Mercedes version because it was a few pounds lighter and the tread is slightly skinnier than the Jaguar, which brings it a little closer in size to stock. I'm not a fan of run flats, although some might prefer it for the Model 3 since it doesn't have a spare.

I don't see the Sottozero 3s on Tirerack, but they're still showing on Discount Tire for $202 each. They're item number 30043 for the Mercedes version. I was a bit tempted by them in a 225/45-18 size since I figured the slightly smaller size would be a teeny bit better in the snow, and the acceleration and range would probably be a little bit better, but I was concerned about the susceptibility of 225s stretched out on 8.5" rims to road damage, and an extra 9mm of ground clearance with the 245s is not a bad thing either in winter.

So far, I've only had one day of driving the Model 3 in snow with the new tires, but it was transformed, and is now better than either my 330i on snows, or my Wrangler on new Duratracs. when the white stuff falls. Compared to the Primacy MXMs in the dry and wet, they're very close with a small edge to the MXMs on ultimate grip, stability, and steering response, but the Sottozero 3s might actually be a little quieter and I'd say they ride slightly better. The differences in all regards are surprisingly small; I thought they would be more distinct.
 
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The 245/45R18 option in the Sottozero 3s is what I decided to go with. Here's my experience with them so far with a couple of comparisons.

So far, I've only had one day of driving the Model 3 in snow with the new tires, but it was transformed, and is now better than either my 330i on snows, or my Wrangler on new Duratracs. when the white stuff falls. Compared to the Primacy MXMs in the dry and wet, they're very close with a small edge to the MXMs on ultimate grip, stability, and steering response, but the Sottozero 3s might actually be a little quieter and I'd say they ride slightly better. The differences in all regards are surprisingly small; I thought they would be more distinct.

Thank you for comparing the Sottozero 3's with the Primacy MXM4's in the wet/dry.

My experience with the Sottozero 2's vs. the Primacy MXM4's in the cold/wet (around 40F) is that the two are almost identical in terms of ultimate grip, stability and steering response. I'm splitting hairs to say the MXM4's win by a tiny margin in all categories. Keep in mind the strongest quality of the MXM4's versus other all-seasons is their cold/wet grip. They really excel at that. And they have excellent stability and steering response. So it's high praise to say the Sottozero 2's are just a gnat's eyelash away in those areas. However, I actually prefer the Sottozero 2's for sporty driving in the cold/wet because they have a much nicer release in hard cornering. The MXM4's release rather abruptly which makes them difficult to drive at the edge.

The Sottozero 2's are also slightly quieter than the MXM4's except I did find a short section of concrete Interstate which produced a light "ringing" noise at around 75 mph. It sounded like angels singing far away. But that short section was the only time in which I found the Pirelli's to be louder. PSI was about 45 PSI cold.

Now we just need a good comparison of the Sottozero 2's with the 3's on snow/ice. I imagine the 3's have the edge. It seems both these tires are designed to be good all around winter tires with the bare road qualities perhaps going to the 2's by a slim margin and the snow and ice performance going to the 3's by a small margin. What I want to know is how much difference there is in the snow/ice. And that's going to be hard to answer without a good direct comparison.
 
The poster above is describing with the R3s is the main reasons I decided to get the Sottozero 2’s for my RWD M3 in Northern NJ.

We have to drive in actual snow 5-10 times a year. The vast, vast majority of time we’re driving on dry or wet pavement, and roads are plowed quickly. It didn’t make sense for me to sacrifice breaking and handling most days of winter for better snow driving a handful of times a year.

So I opted for the Tesla 18” package, and now it’s just a question of when/if it’s coming. People at my local service center actually laughed when I asked them about it. They said they’ve installed one so far, just recently, and the guy ordered them in summer. So I may be going all seasons this winter.
 
All the folks that are unhappy with the noise from snows should check out threads on audiophile modifications and "dynamating". While these are somewhat labor-intensive for the average owner to undertake, and perhaps more than some people might want to tackle, the addition of sound dampening compound to the doors and floor can make a big difference in reducing tire noise and road noise in general.
 
My Michelin X-ICE Xi3 are very quiet. I barely notice them on the highway.

I can hear them more on my STI.

Yup, Xi3’s are better than OEM tires noise wise and nearly as good on rolling resistence. I’m not having any issue with their handling or regen on a P3D-. I know they don’t corner the same, but that is to expected and worth sticking to ice and snow.

For the record my car is usually in chill mode and standard regen. With heat off I’m getting 220-230 kW/mi. And I won’t chew up my tires in 15k miles.
 
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The poster above is describing with the R3s is the main reasons I decided to get the Sottozero 2’s for my RWD M3 in Northern NJ.

We have to drive in actual snow 5-10 times a year. The vast, vast majority of time we’re driving on dry or wet pavement, and roads are plowed quickly. It didn’t make sense for me to sacrifice breaking and handling most days of winter for better snow driving a handful of times a year.

So I opted for the Tesla 18” package, and now it’s just a question of when/if it’s coming. People at my local service center actually laughed when I asked them about it. They said they’ve installed one so far, just recently, and the guy ordered them in summer. So I may be going all seasons this winter.
Someone should start a tracking spreadsheet for the Tesla winter wheels. ;)
I ordered back in October. No word yet. Luckily I work from home, so don’t really need to drive in the snow if I don’t want to.
 
My xi3s are way louder than the foamed stock 18 primacy. I can’t believe people are saying that they are quieter. Did I get a defective set?? Lol
Also dry braking is noticeably worse.

Are they on in the right direction?
What pressure did you run before on OEM vs Xi3.

Maybe it depends what your driving on? But I find them quieter.

Not that I think it should matter, are you on the same rims and covers?
 
Are they on in the right direction?
What pressure did you run before on OEM vs Xi3.

Maybe it depends what your driving on? But I find them quieter.

Not that I think it should matter, are you on the same rims and covers?

+1, I've read of tire shops mounting them backwards. Bad for traction and noise. There is an arrow on the sidewall that need to point the right way.

I have the XI3 inflated at 45-47psi and don't notice any noise difference from the stock tires at the same inflation.
 
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