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Which vaccine did you get?
- Thread starter nwdiver
- Start date
roblab
Active Member
Good idea. No need suffering through a mildly painful shoulder for a whole day just to get immunity from a deadly disease. My wife and I have had our second shots, first ones no pain, this one just hurts if I push on the muscle. I've been sorer the day after visiting the gym.
As another aside, it seems that it's mainly GOP who refuse to get vaccinated. I figure that if enough anti-vaxxers die off, the nation can get back to business.
Sadly, there are vaccine deniers on both sides of the political spectrum. On the right there are people who believe that COVID-19 is not real or is not serious or that Bill Gates has put a chip in the vaccine to track you (your telephone tracks you already, they don't need to put a chip in you, and anyway, that needle is way too small for a chip to fit).
On the left there are people who don't trust doctors and "big pharma."
Spaceosaurus
Member
Dealing with this with my elderly parents. Refusing to get the vaccine because "they don't need it." Oh, okay. Totally cool risking a painful and expensive death because you couldn't be bothered to spend 30 minutes extra at the grocery store to get a free shot. Sure-fire way to die and be remembered as a fool.
I swear, the amount of vaccines infants get and even they whine less than a large portion of the US population.
In the United States, it’s not “deadly” for the overwhelming majority of those who catch it. Fatality rate currently at 1.82%. Said another way, 98.18% of people who contract Covid-19 recover.
From the CDC website as of today:
Total cases in the United States 29,552,459
Total deaths in the United States
538,261
Spaceosaurus
Member
And yet there's a world of possibilities ranging from "I get it and I'm totally fine" to "I'm dead." Long term lung damage, neurological issues, and cardiac disease are all being found. Anecdotally, two of the guys from my CrossFit gym who would regularly top the leaderboards are still struggling nearly a year later to hit their old times.
The question really is: What's the logic in risking it? To make a personal/political statement? Laziness? Weird bargain.
Oh I agree, the issue is more it’s virality than its fatality. I was clarifying that we (as many say) follow the science, and realize calling it “deadly” isn’t the angle to take. But we also now have much better therapeutics to treat you if you catch it. Fewer people are thrown onto respirators than in the beginning weeks. A new 5-day treatment pack (much like Tamiflu and the Z-pack) being developed and tested by Merck and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics has shown to eliminate C19 from the body in trials. Available (projected) by summer. That’s fantastic news. And more appealing to some over an emergency approved vaccine (not formerly approved, mind you, only at this point emergency approved).
Add to the list of reasons not to take a vaccination right now (note I don’t say “ever”): (1) unknown longer term side effects, still being discovered, (2) underlying health issues which may increase risk of side effects, and (3) freedom. People are free to assess their personal level risk and make personal decisions. (Just don’t be silly and claim the virus is a hoax, or that the vaccines are a cover for nefarious population control of some type.)
Covid-19 isn’t the bogeyman. It will be controlled and we will rise above it.
Now then, back to driving...
Add to the list of reasons not to take a vaccination right now (note I don’t say “ever”): (1) unknown longer term side effects, still being discovered, (2) underlying health issues which may increase risk of side effects, and (3) freedom. People are free to assess their personal level risk and make personal decisions. (Just don’t be silly and claim the virus is a hoax, or that the vaccines are a cover for nefarious population control of some type.)
Covid-19 isn’t the bogeyman. It will be controlled and we will rise above it.
Now then, back to driving...
We have enough information right now to know, categorically, that the risk of any long-term side effect of the vaccine is a minuscule fraction of the risk of contracting COVID-19 and suffering much worse long-term effects (including the small but significant risk of death). With the information we have, it is idiotic in the extreme to refuse the vaccine. It is also irresponsible to refuse the vaccine because even if you don't die or have long-term effects, you could pass the virus on to someone who does. Supporting herd immunity by getting your vaccine is a matter of social responsibility. You have a responsibility as a member of society get your vaccine so the nation and the world can return to normal. Vaccine refusers are saying to everybody around them "To hell with you. I don't care about you. I only care about myself."
All of the excuses given are bogus. Some are extreme conspiracy theories (Bill Gates put a chip in it); some are massive ignorance (old people in nursing homes have died after getting it); and some are just plain incomprehensible stupidity ("I don't need it because I never get sick"). The modern-day fear of vaccines came out of a fraudulent and later retracted paper connecting vaccines with autism, and by the time that was thoroughly debunked the fear was so rooted that people started inventing other "problems." The Wakefield paper was not bad science. It was fraud from start to finish by a criminal who was promoting his own quack alternative to vaccines.
It all comes down to "I don't want to put something unnatural in my body." And a generalized fear of the medical system.
There is no legitimate reason to refuse the vaccine if you are offered it and anybody who does is, frankly, a moron, a coward, and a selfish ass.
All of the excuses given are bogus. Some are extreme conspiracy theories (Bill Gates put a chip in it); some are massive ignorance (old people in nursing homes have died after getting it); and some are just plain incomprehensible stupidity ("I don't need it because I never get sick"). The modern-day fear of vaccines came out of a fraudulent and later retracted paper connecting vaccines with autism, and by the time that was thoroughly debunked the fear was so rooted that people started inventing other "problems." The Wakefield paper was not bad science. It was fraud from start to finish by a criminal who was promoting his own quack alternative to vaccines.
It all comes down to "I don't want to put something unnatural in my body." And a generalized fear of the medical system.
There is no legitimate reason to refuse the vaccine if you are offered it and anybody who does is, frankly, a moron, a coward, and a selfish ass.
And the whole 'unnatural' thing is such an idiotic arbitrary line. GMOs are my favorite example. When bio-engineers carefully select a gene from one species and add it to another it's a dangerous abomination but when it occurs through pure random chance like in Sweet Potatoes it's ok???? Would you rather get on a plane that was randomly and thoughtlessly thrown together or one that was engineered to fly safely? Why the double standard?
mRNA is also not unnatural (not that it matters). Our cells use mRNA to make proteins. We're just using this to make the protein we need our bodies to understand how to make counter-measures to.
The naturalistic fallacy is a bedrock of leftist anti-science, as straight-up science denial is a bedrock of the right. Sadly, science is attacked from both sides.
When people use the naturalistic fallacy with me, I point out that cobra venom is natural, curare is natural, poison oak and poison ivy are natural, and there's a 100% natural tree frog in Columbia whose poison will kill you if you so much as touch the frog. (They're very pretty, though.)
None of our principal food crops are natural. All were produced by artificial selection, and, what the new-age "natural'-foods advocates don't realize, is that many of them have been developed by irradiating seeds (or plants?) to cause mutations, and then growing them and looking for desirable characteristics. This is much more haphazard than gene splicing, where researchers carefully select known desirable genes to splice in.
When people use the naturalistic fallacy with me, I point out that cobra venom is natural, curare is natural, poison oak and poison ivy are natural, and there's a 100% natural tree frog in Columbia whose poison will kill you if you so much as touch the frog. (They're very pretty, though.)
None of our principal food crops are natural. All were produced by artificial selection, and, what the new-age "natural'-foods advocates don't realize, is that many of them have been developed by irradiating seeds (or plants?) to cause mutations, and then growing them and looking for desirable characteristics. This is much more haphazard than gene splicing, where researchers carefully select known desirable genes to splice in.
@daniel, yes, lots of natural poisons out there that will kill you. Natural does not equal better for you.
So a question for you, when you say “We have enough information right now to know, categorically, that the risk of any long-term side effect of the vaccine is a minuscule fraction...”. How? We have not had enough testing of these particular vaccines to possibly know, and they are brand new (no longer term use or history) to know what will happen say in a year from now. Legit curious as to why you say We have enough information.
So a question for you, when you say “We have enough information right now to know, categorically, that the risk of any long-term side effect of the vaccine is a minuscule fraction...”. How? We have not had enough testing of these particular vaccines to possibly know, and they are brand new (no longer term use or history) to know what will happen say in a year from now. Legit curious as to why you say We have enough information.
Sure.... but they would be idiots to do so. This idea that everyone is able to make an informed decision on everything is absurd. Pick something about your profession and think of what the average person knows about it.... unless you're an immunologist, or a virologist that's your level of knowledge about vaccines.
I'm getting ready to start feeding a new cylinder of Uranium Hexafluoride in a cascade for enrichment. What temperature and pressures should I be using? Should I ask Alice in accounting or one of the engineers?
Here's a good example of how TERRIBLE we are at assessing probability (aka risk). Take the 'Monty Hall Problem'. 3 Doors, prize behind one door. You pick a door but don't open it, I open one of the two remaining doors that DOES NOT contain the prize. I ask if you want to keep your original choice or change. Should you change your selection? Does it matter?
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.... we have enough information right now to know that the risks of taking the vaccine are orders of magnitude lower than the risks of not taking the vaccine because we've seen millions of SARS-COV2 infections and hundreds of thousands of vaccinations.
No. "freedom" is being too loosely thrown around. We are in a collective civilized society. As part of the social compact we owe a duty to each other. This is a world health issue. A question of science. One's personal "feelings" cannot stand in front of science. The one scenario that has not been mentioned is what if too many people decide their personal freedom to assess whether they want to get vaccinated don't and allows the virus to mutate to a point that the current vaccines are no longer effective. One's personal choices cannot trump the benefits of society or well being of others. Do what you want - when it can solely effect you. Once your decisions effect others than society has a right to have some input.
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Don't worry, our governor will not be recalled. Although I have made reservations at the French Laundry to find out what the fuss is all about. And I have had my first shot and will get the second in @10 days - thanks for your concern. And to answer the original question - Pfizer - insignificant brief soreness if you touched the injection site.
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