White Lies Matter?

[theslimshadyist]

I turn 50 in May and in no way shape of form do I "race" my car or drive it like a 20 something year old with a muscle car but I didn't pay $165K to find out after the fact that Tesla WOULD limit the performance of my car. Had I known this, I more than likely would have purchased the same configured car in the 90D and would have saved myself the $40K delta.

Try telling a Ferrari owner after the fact that the Italian automaker has a switch to limit it's performance and see what sort of response you will receive. I'm just really bent about this news because it wasn't what I signed up for when I made the purchase. Yes, I was fully aware that the AP2 advanced features wouldn't be working when I took delivery and figured things wouldn't be ready for up to 6 months or so but this one just takes things to another level.

 

[Az_Rael]

Some facts:

1. Tesla isn't limiting launches, only power.
2. This only applies to v2 P90DL.
3. The power limit after the counter is used up is from 1600A down to 1500A.
4. This isn't turning the v2 P90DL's into limp-mode. 1500A is still crazy fast.
   
5. v1 P90DLs and P85DLs can only do 1500A to begin with and don't have any counter.
6. P100DLs don't have this counter and can do 1600A day-after-day.
7. Tesla is about to uncork even more performance on the P100DLs with a software update. That additional performance, like this on v2 P90DLs, could have a counter. Or it may not. We'll see.

I don't think we know that #2 and #5 are facts yet.

 

[Andyw2100]

OMG, the lack of facts and real information on this thread is painful. This is how fake news is started and rumors spread.

Some facts:

1. Tesla isn't limiting launches, only power.
2. This only applies to v2 P90DL.
3. The power limit after the counter is used up is from 1600A down to 1500A.
4. This isn't turning the v2 P90DL's into limp-mode. 1500A is still crazy fast.
   
5. v1 P90DLs and P85DLs can only do 1500A to begin with and don't have any counter.
6. P100DLs don't have this counter and can do 1600A day-after-day.
7. Tesla is about to uncork even more performance on the P100DLs with a software update. That additional performance, like this on v2 P90DLs, could have a counter. Or it may not. We'll see.

If you have been reading everything in the power limiting thread, you'd know that almost all your 1-7 numbered facts above are wrong.

Number 1 I believe is correct.
Number 2 is definitely wrong.
Number 3 is definitely wrong.
Number 4, while wrong, is also irrelevant. If someone comes into your house and starts stealing things, is it less illegal if they steal only one of your three TVs, and leave all the jewelry?
Number 5 is only correct with respect to the max amps. The counters--three of them--are being used on all P models.
Number 6 is also wrong. There was a note early on in the thread from Tesla, stating that P100DLs were not affected. That has now been changed, based on later info.
Number 7 is correct with respect to Ludicrous+. It is incorrect with respect to counters, since the counters already exist on the P100DL.

See post number 1200 in that thread, copied below, for support for my comments.

Service advisor just gave me credible info.

3 counters

One for Launches/WOT over 1500 amps. (I have 92 and have never used launch mode)

One for rolling mashes that are hard but under 1500 amps (mine is 134)

One for "mixture" (mine is 311.6)

They are protecting wire bonds.

625 is hard cut for Launches.

Rolling mashes counts towards mixture. Cut is 3068 for Mixture limit.

Can one of you who has been severely power-cut send me your VIN number through PM? The service manager that I'm working with would like to see your stats to understand if there is any remedy planned.

 

[sdorn]

I'm interested in knowing what the answer is, but nothing I've read so far makes me believe anyone knows what is going on. The post immediately above this one quotes a service advisor for christ's sake. You may as well have asked Santa Claus for the answer. How about people quit spreading misinformation and calling it fact. Until someone reverse engineers the software and then several others peer review that reverse engineering, or Tesla provides actual information, please stick to phrasing posts as being your opinion and not spreading misinformation that you can't back up.

 

[Reeler]

I say don't upgrade the car's firmware and do launches until whatever Tesla is trying to guard against happening breaks. The replacement will not need the launch limit.

That said, I will be turning off ludicrous mode in my wife's X90DL. I imagine at resale, the number of remaining launches will be on the Carfax report.

 

[number12]

I'm interested in knowing what the answer is, but nothing I've read so far makes me believe anyone knows what is going on. The post immediately above this one quotes a service advisor for christ's sake. You may as well have asked Santa Claus for the answer. How about people quit spreading misinformation and calling it fact. Until someone reverse engineers the software and then several others peer review that reverse engineering, or Tesla provides actual information, please stick to phrasing posts as being your opinion and not spreading misinformation that you can't back up.

Someone has confirmed there is a counter by looking into the software. I will agree there should be some sort of master WIKI to keep it all straight as prior info is in a different thread.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'm interested in knowing what the answer is, but nothing I've read so far makes me believe anyone knows what is going on. The post immediately above this one quotes a service advisor for christ's sake. You may as well have asked Santa Claus for the answer.

That's my post you are referring to, which included a post from the main thread. While I agree Tesla service advisors may not always be the best source of information, this one dug into information available in the computer and gave the customer very precise information on the three counters on his car, and what they had counted up to. That was not FUD-spreading, or information from Santa Claus. That was solid, factual information.

 

[sdorn]

That's my post you are referring to, which included a post from the main thread. While I agree Tesla service advisors may not always be the best source of information, this one dug into information available in the computer and gave the customer very precise information on the three counters on his car, and what they had counted up to. That was not FUD-spreading, or information from Santa Claus. That was solid, factual information.

So you were there when this service advisor looked at the car? Or at least when he spoke to the car's owner? Or maybe you saw some documentation showing the counters? Pictures maybe? Please tell me you at least heard this first hand and aren't relying on hearsay from somebody on the internet and then portraying it as fact.

 

[Andyw2100]

So you were there when this service advisor looked at the car? Or at least when he spoke to the car's owner? Or maybe you saw some documentation showing the counters? Pictures maybe? Please tell me you at least heard this first hand and aren't relying on hearsay from somebody on the internet and then portraying it as fact.

I provided the source from the other thread. I obviously wasn't there. Are you suggesting that we are now at the point where we call each other liars?

The post I quoted is completely credible. If you want to make yourself feel better by thinking anyone who provides information you don't like is lying, that's your prerogative. No one in the other thread, which is far more active than this one, doubts the credibility of that poster.

 

[AnonNJ]

I saw my 3 counters with my own eyes on the screen. This is very accurate first hand info that I witnessed and experienced. There are 3 counters with two distinct limits.

These revelations are shocking and hard to believe. But they are absolutely real.

So you were there when this service advisor looked at the car? Or at least when he spoke to the car's owner? Or maybe you saw some documentation showing the counters? Pictures maybe? Please tell me you at least heard this first hand and aren't relying on hearsay from somebody on the internet and then portraying it as fact.

 

[AnonNJ]

@elonmusk Can we clear up counters? 625 launch, 3068 mix? Based on current stats, at 30,000 miles my P90DL becomes a Nissan Leaf!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Lbkmxp100d]

OMG, the lack of facts and real information on this thread is painful. This is how fake news is started and rumors spread.

Some facts:

1. Tesla isn't limiting launches, only power.
2. This only applies to v2 P90DL.
3. The power limit after the counter is used up is from 1600A down to 1500A.
4. This isn't turning the v2 P90DL's into limp-mode. 1500A is still crazy fast.
   
5. v1 P90DLs and P85DLs can only do 1500A to begin with and don't have any counter.
6. P100DLs don't have this counter and can do 1600A day-after-day.
7. Tesla is about to uncork even more performance on the P100DLs with a software update. That additional performance, like this on v2 P90DLs, could have a counter. Or it may not. We'll see.

Sheesh.

Where are you getting your info? I sincerely hope your correct since I just took delivery of my P100DL on dec 20th and have been extremely upset over the news I have heard on the forum about potential power reduction after X amount of launches/WOT. I do find it hard to believe that Tesla would be limiting power bc of potential mechanical issues with hard launches or WOT but they are releasing an Easter egg that will increase the P100DL power.

What's your source that the power limiting is only associated with the P90DL models?

 

[Lbkmxp100d]

I saw my 3 counters with my own eyes on the screen. This is very accurate first hand info that I witnessed and experienced. There are 3 counters with two distinct limits.

These revelations are shocking and hard to believe. But they are absolutely real.

What model do you own?

 

[lolachampcar]

So you were there when this service advisor looked at the car? Or at least when he spoke to the car's owner? Or maybe you saw some documentation showing the counters? Pictures maybe? Please tell me you at least heard this first hand and aren't relying on hearsay from somebody on the internet and then portraying it as fact.

sdorn,
I too try to slow myself on the trigger although I do like to muse and speculate about the motivations and engineering causation behind problems and Tesla's actions. Over on TM I tried to separate these two by starting a thread that referenced only the available direct information from Tesla and direct hearsay.

For me, the totality of the hearsay and what Tesla has added to their web site indicate the counters are indeed real. Combine this with my personal experience with Tesla on other business related issues where they have had no problem putting their own interests well above those of their customers and I conclude that this counter issue is a well reasoned response to an impending disaster. My conclusions only.

 

[efusco]

Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits