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"White Star" styling

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by vfx, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Each auto maker has a signature look. Branding is done with styling cues that carry from small sports cars up to SUVs.

    The Tesla Roadster is a first car from a new company. I wonder what signature visual cues will get carried to the "white star" from the Roadster. Tail lights, vents, headlights, or anything at all.

    I would hope that the sedan is past the "red and geren sticker" part of developement process.


    e
     
  2. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    I also have wondered about that. I think the most distinctive styling feature of the Roadster is the big scowling front grille opening. Not saying that I particularly like it, just that it's distinctive.

    My biggest concern is the need for better streamlining and lower aerodynamic drag. I would like to see Tesla buck the trend of treating aerodynamics as an afterthought (if it's thought of at all).
     
  3. Michael

    Michael Member

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    I agree that aerodynamic efficiency would seem to be the best area of focus after weight. With a vehicle that's larger than the roadster, and without batteries that are significantly improved, I would guess that's the only way to keep a reasonable range!
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    A while back I had mocked up a sedan with some roadster styling bits:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    TEG, do you have a mock up view of the tail lights for the sedan?
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Nope. That little photoshop hack job is all I did for a quick bit of fun.

    Just imagine that the rear looks just like the roadster but with a curved rear window...
     
  7. danny

    danny Administrator

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    The car supposedly will be designed by Henrik Fisker.
    If you do not know who he is, he designed the BMW Z8 and Aston Martin DB9.
    He is a fantastic car designer imho.
    His current work is with www.fiskercb.com or fisker coachbuild.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Some Telsa insiders appeared to refute the Fisker angle after it had been supposedly leaked.

    Do you have more real info, or are you just repeating the rumor?
     
  9. danny

    danny Administrator

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    I'm just repeating the rumour, and if i had real info i'm sure i wouldn't be able to say anything.
     
  10. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    I'll speculate that once the roadster hits the streets there will be another round of praise, great articles and interviews. Following that will be a good time to introduce WhiteStar.
     
  11. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Elon mentioned that it will be roomier than a 5 series and will have space for 3 child restraint seats in the back.
     
  12. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    Have you come across anything regarding trunk space? Earlier in the year there was discussion about the possibility of a hatchback, which now seems to be the design for model 3.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Personally that sounds a tad larger than I would like.

    The Roadster is also an inch or two wider than my ideal.

    Urban situations call for use of compact parking spaces. Wide cars get "door-dinged" a lot more.
    It bothers me when people park their expensive wide cars in the middle of two spaces thinking that they are protecting their doors.
    They may avoid door dings, but then someone "keys" them for taking more than their fair share of parking spaces.

    If all you ever do is drive between your big private garage and some private valet parking somewhere then it doesn't really matter, but for a vehicle to be parked wherever in some downtown I appreciate something a bit more narrow.

    Comparing a range of vehicle widths as follows:

    86" HummerH1
    81" HummerH2
    75" HummerH3
    75" BMW 7-Series E66 2002-now
    73" BMW 7-series E38 1995-2001 (approx Roadster width)
    72" BMW 7-series E32 1987-1994
    72" BMW 5-series E60 2004-now
    70" BMW 5-series E39 1996-2003 <== What I like
    70" BMW 3-series E90 2006-now
    69" BMW 5-series E34 1989-1996
    69" BMW 3-series E46 1998-2005
    67" BMW 5-series E28 1982-1988 <== BMW 5 series used to be more narrow
    67" BMW 3-series E36 1991-2000
    65" BMW 3-series E30 1984-1994
    65" BMW Mini 2001+
    55" BMC/MG-Rover Mini 1959-2000
    39" Tango

    You can see that BMW has wider cars as the price (and luxury factor) increases. Also over the years they have grown around the waist (ready for a mid-life crisis?)
    There is a strong temptation to add width because it is an easy way to add interior space, and does help handling in some ways, but you increase wind drag, cause more steering needed in a slalom, and you compromise "parkability".

    The Roadster is already in BMW 7-series width territory.
    If Whitestar is wider than 72" I will be disappointed.
    (Personally I hope they make it closer to 70" wide, but then you would have trouble doing 3 across seating in the rear)

    As you can also see above, each new generation of Hummer gets more narrow.
    GM has been learning that the behemoth footprint is just too impractical.

    In Tokyo, parking can be at such a premium, and wide spaces are few and far between.
    They tax a wide car more, so you find a lot of narrow sedans coming from Japan.

    For instance, there are many compact sports sedans that are all < 70" wide.

    For those in the SF bay area, take note of the fact that two Hummers (or Lamborghini Diablos) can't really drive side by side down Alma in Palo Alto...
     
  14. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Does anyone know how this car will be "packaged" - motor in front or rear - AWD - RWD - FWD - location of the batteries.

    How light or heavy will it be?

    The size of a Prius or a 5 Series?
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Educated guess based on rumors posted in the blogs and such:

    Batteries under the seats spread around under the car.

    RWD (although many have suggested that AWD would be desirable)

    Weight guesstimate: 3600lbs.

    Slightly larger than a BMW 5 Series. (sounds too big to me... Maybe I have to wait for 3rd gen, not Whitestar)

    Motor location: ???
    I hope it is in the rear connected directly to a differential/transmission (similar to what the Roadster uses)
    Some story said they were thinking about having the motor up front with a driveshaft to the rear.
    I don't like that idea. Driveshafts waste space, make noise, sap power, and are a maintenance item.

    Now if they put the motor and transmission in the rear, then what goes up front under the front hood?
    They could put the PEM up there, but I don't think they like to run long power lines between the PEM and the eMotor.
    Perhaps that is why they thought it best to locate the eMotor up front?

    Personally I would like to see something like this:

    (From front to rear):
    Empty-Front-Trunk...Some of ESS batteries against the firewall... More of L shaped ESS batteries under the floor... PEM behind the rear seats over the motor/transmission/differential... Very small rear trunk like they have on the roadster.

    Porsche does well enough with front trunks. I don't think they need to have the motor and PEM up front.

    Some EVs have used the "transmission tunnel" idea as the place for the battery box. Like the EV1.
    I have a feeling that the Whitestar team doesn't want to cut into interior space like that. They may do a Rav4EV style flat box under the body.
    This would bring up a questions - do they do 3 across bench seating in the front? 2 person buckets seem to be the norm these days, but 3 across was very popular for a while. The RangerEV actually does 3 across.
     
  16. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Mainecoon Butler

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    I remember reading it would be the size of 3 series.
    Sports sedan bigger than 5 series and weighing "only" 3600 pounds with cca 900pound of batteries? Somehow doesn't add up.
     
  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Elon says it will be able to fit 3 child seats in the back.
    Also, more interior room and much more cargo space than a BMW 5 series..

    Will they really be able to do the above and keep it the size of a 3 series? I am worried that the size (width & length) is growing as they work on the design.

    Well I am going to give them the benefit of doubt and assume that they will be using light weight technology. Will they use a bonded aluminum chassis like they did on the Roadster?

    The Toyota Avalon is a big 4 door family sedan that only weights 3500lbs.

    Yes, they may have 900lbs of batteries, but the eMotor weighs almost nothing, so compared to an ICE car, they shouldn't be that far off.

    Yes, I fear it could be 4000lbs+, but I am crossing my fingers that they can work wonders in the weight savings department.
     

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