Who can catch Tesla ? They seem to be experiencing exponential growth…..

[RobDickinson]

European and American, and Japanese manufacturers will get slammed by the Chinese. hard.

Tesla will keep ticking along with ~20% of the Bev market whilst those companies burn.

 

[Bouba]

New factories before they are making much stuff do indeed burn money.

But tesla is the most efficient in this process, with the most in demand product with the most efficient build.

They'll also have more factories and sales with products that have a higher gross margin than anyone else.

But whatever

If a recession comes (and I cannot predict it any more than the next guy) everything stops..bank stop lending money, companies close, jobs lost..
Let me give an example...JCB, makers of earth moving equipment, was in a very good place to weather the last recession, production and sales were matched and production was spread around the world, in China for example where it was predicted that construction would continue...but Caterpillar had not planned as well and they had a lot of inventory when demand fell off the roof...but perversely Caterpillar sales carried on because they had no choice but to practically give the plant away...hurting JCB..

 

[RobDickinson]

If a recession comes you think the other manufacturers making cars no one wants any more that are expensive to run will do any good?

All those who currently have vast debts and high costs, unlike tesla?

 

[Bouba]

If a recession comes you think the other manufacturers making cars no one wants any more that are expensive to run will do any good?

All those who currently have vast debts and high costs, unlike tesla?

I don’t know if a recession will come...but everyone is talking about it...and you can talk yourself into a recession...but everyone will hurt...but will the ‘too big to fail’ companies get bailed out again? Will the non-unionized Tesla get bailed out?

 

[DblOSmith]

Look at the actual numbers for Ford, GM and Stellantis.

An utter joke. They should be ashamed of themselves.

No-no-no. Someone told me that GM was leading the way in EVs. They lead and it matters.... lol

 

[DblOSmith]

Here is a table that includes the Chinese…. perhaps more believeable than the nonsense in my first post ! View attachment 819337

Isn't it true that BYD pure number of vehicle count is irrelevant because a large number of their vehicles are micro-cars or have very little safety features and would never be approved for roads in the US or Europe?

 

[Stuart Watson]

Tesla’s growth is limited. When all the giga factories are at maximum production, that’s it. Toyota, VW and others have more manufacturing potential when they retool all their existing plants. At the moment everyone is constrained by the supply chain, the immaturity of the market and a looming recession.
So will Tesla go from the largest brand to the most exclusive when the giants finally overtake, or will giga factories start popping up all over? Or perhaps Tesla will become the battery, drive train and technology supplier to the rest of the industry....

The problem Toyota have, is no one wants to buy their cars … they messed about with Hydrogen and other distractions.

 

[Stuart Watson]

I don‘t know that I agree with @Sklith but:

• VW has a well developed dealer and service infrastructure, Tesla does not
• VM supports their products, Tesla does not
• VW outsells Tesla in Europe nearly 2 to 1

Utter nonsense !

Look at the facts :

 

[DblOSmith]

Utter nonsense !

Look at the facts :

He said VW outsells in Europe. You show global numbers?

 

[RobDickinson]

The company thats been going 70 years with 84 brands and dozens of factories currently outsells tesla in its home market as it tries desperately to avoid billions in fines, again

 

[wwu123]

Isn't it true that BYD pure number of vehicle count is irrelevant because a large number of their vehicles are micro-cars or have very little safety features and would never be approved for roads in the US or Europe?

If we're going to dismiss vendors for making small cars, we may as well as strike Stellantis and Renault groups from the lists as a good chunk of their sales are from cars like the Fiat 500e and Renault Zoe, which are pretty small if not micro-cars...

Anyways I dismissed BYD a few years ago because a good chunk of their lineup and sales were actually PHEV's, and many of these global "EV" lists included plug-in hybrids. But fast-forward two years, and suddenly they have a couple of new fast-selling EV models that are neither micro-cars nor PHEV. It's pretty interesting to me how even Nio gets more coverage than BYD around here (both sell primarily in China and not yet in the US/Europe), given their relative sales numbers.

 

[RobDickinson]

BYD are hard expanding outside China now

 

[DblOSmith]

If we're going to dismiss vendors for making small cars, we may as well as strike Stellantis and Renault groups from the lists as a good chunk of their sales are from cars like the Fiat 500e and Renault Zoe, which are pretty small if not micro-cars...

What I said...

Isn't it true that BYD pure number of vehicle count is irrelevant because a large number of their vehicles are micro-cars or have very little safety features and would never be approved for roads in the US or Europe?

It's not about being small. Otherwise, do we count power wheels in the US in the EV numbers? For global purposes, they're just as relevant.

 

[RobDickinson]

I think someone is confusing BYD with the GM micro car?

 

[cwerdna]

The problem Toyota have, is no one wants to buy their cars … they messed about with Hydrogen and other distractions.

Toyota sold 9.51 million vehicles worldwide for their fiscal year 2021: Sales, Production, and Export Results for March 2022 | Sales, Production, and Export Results | Profile | Company | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website. That's pretty good for a "no one wants to buy their cars" company.

They and VW are usually amongst the top 2 in the terms of largest automakers in the world by sales. GM used to be up there until they got rid of their European (Opel and Vauxhall) group (sold to PSA Groupe and now is part of Stellanstis after the merger w/FCA).

Toyota's dabbling with hydrogen FCEVs is odd but not incredibly surprising given CARB Mandate For Zero Emission Vehicles and the ZEV credit per vehicle on those: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? Why hydrogen after 2014 ? - Toyota Rav4 EV Forum.

 

[Stuart Watson]

Cwerdna, you make it sound like things are fine at Toyota !

However, the figures contradict you;

 

[Stuart Watson]

He said VW outsells in Europe. You show global numbers?

I don’t see the relevance in looking at a region if figures are avail for the globe.

Im curious in this, from an investors point of view. Investors prefer the “ big picture”.

 

[thesmokingman]

I don’t see the relevance in looking at a region if figures are avail for the globe.

Im curious in this, from an investors point of view. Investors prefer the “ big picture”.

Psst, Toyota used up all their credits with hyrbids, so now they have to compete on the actual design/quality of their EVs... LMAO. No wonder they tried to deny it for so long. No soup for you. Unlike other subpar offerings from other brands which get handicapped with fed rebates, Toyota's offerings have to compete just like Tesla, w/o any incentives.

 

[meomyo]

2022 Rivian R1S Review: Feels Like a Throwback Adventure SUV, Only Electric

The R1S proves an SUV doesn't need a historic brand name or burbling engine to have an adventurous soul.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Stuart Watson]

Meomyo, Perhaps buy one before they go bankrupt ?
(Mass production is the difficult part, this is why Rivian will fail)