Was looking at other EV's but most don't have a frunk or very tiny. You can't even open the front hood on the BMW iX
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Who can catch Tesla ? They seem to be experiencing exponential growth…..
- Thread starter Stuart Watson
- Start date
Agreed !!
Dual purpose platforms .. ice / BEV are not good cars !!
I have zero loyalty to Elon … I’m a lifelong BMW fanboy .. M3’s , 535’s … and Boxster 4.0 718 etc …
But My Model Y (with acceleration boost ) has really gripped my heart !
It’s so capable..: approach/departure angles on my steep drive , towing the SeaDoo230 , carrying my children safely, trips to the beach and COSTCO … I freaking love it.
I owned a £60K BMW MSPORT X5 before this …. The only thing I miss is the smell of the (real) leather and the fabulous split tailgate …
Bjørn Nyland drives the BMW i4 eDrive 40 1000 km at 09:20. Same as 22 3 P and 3 LR.
In Europe, charging infrastructure is a solved problem (mostly), so that can be solved in the US also. It didn't take that much time in Europe.
Cars are already competetive at core capability (range and fast charging).
Choose Tesla for space/utility/performance, choose the i4 for comfort/sport/percieved quality/build quality. Brand loyalty and looks is subjective.
Then add EV6, Ioniq 5, ID.4, Q4, the new PPE platform, EQS and EQE etc.
In Europe, charging infrastructure is a solved problem (mostly), so that can be solved in the US also. It didn't take that much time in Europe.
Cars are already competetive at core capability (range and fast charging).
Choose Tesla for space/utility/performance, choose the i4 for comfort/sport/percieved quality/build quality. Brand loyalty and looks is subjective.
Then add EV6, Ioniq 5, ID.4, Q4, the new PPE platform, EQS and EQE etc.
Yet Toyota has had to cut production numerous times like:
May/June Production Suspension and June Production Plan | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
We at Toyota would like to again apologize for the repeated adjustments to our production plans due to the parts shortage resulting from the spread of COVID-19, and for causing considerable inconvenience to our customers, suppliers, and other parties concerned.The global production plan for June...
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/VDNW5WCGGZOMXIPKCZLFCWCRPI.jpg)
Toyota cuts June output plan again as China lockdowns bite
Toyota Motor Corp on Friday cut its global production plan for June for the second time this week and signalled its full-year output estimate could be lowered, highlighting the pain from the supply chain crunch and China lockdown.
www.reuters.com
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/OBL6R5252RMBXIHMMGEYH4SB2I.jpg)
Toyota cuts July global production plan by 50,000 vehicles
Toyota Motor Corp on Wednesday cut its July global production plan by 50,000 vehicles as semiconductor shortages and COVID-19 parts supply disruptions continued to curb output.
www.reuters.com
Huh on the 12 months? if I select Performance version at Design Your Model Y | Tesla, the ETA become Aug to Oct 2022.
This claim of yours that Toyota have a future, well it won’t age well!Yet Toyota has had to cut production numerous times like:
May/June Production Suspension and June Production Plan | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
We at Toyota would like to again apologize for the repeated adjustments to our production plans due to the parts shortage resulting from the spread of COVID-19, and for causing considerable inconvenience to our customers, suppliers, and other parties concerned.The global production plan for June...global.toyota
Toyota cuts June output plan again as China lockdowns bite
Toyota Motor Corp on Friday cut its global production plan for June for the second time this week and signalled its full-year output estimate could be lowered, highlighting the pain from the supply chain crunch and China lockdown.Toyota cuts July global production plan by 50,000 vehicles
Toyota Motor Corp on Wednesday cut its July global production plan by 50,000 vehicles as semiconductor shortages and COVID-19 parts supply disruptions continued to curb output.
Huh on the 12 months? if I select Performance version at Design Your Model Y | Tesla, the ETA become Aug to Oct 2022.
Let’s look at the thread again in 24 months and see what their market share is.
What is this *sugar* sh*t?Sadly it's like a lot of financial heads don't even count them like BYD at #2 in China. The really big big thing imo is that VW is really *sugar* in China and those numbers will look a lot worse in 2022. There's articles detailing how piss poor reception is to VW and other legacy auto in China. Apparently the Chinese consumer wants Teslas or Chinese brands like BYD, Xpeng, NIO, etc.
And then the baffling reasons for VW's poor sales blaimg attire choice by sales staff.
VW ID.4's Slow Start In China Blamed On Staff's Rigid Dress Code
VW sales staff in China dress more conservatively compared to Tesla and Nio salespeople, and that is a turn-off for some buyers.insideevs.com
I keep seeing it here. Nowhere else.
thesmokingman
Active Member
Not so sure about that.
Where do you think their funding comes from ?
Bezos. Via Amazon.
Amazon has an order for 100,000 delivery vans from Rivian.
As long as Bezos wants Rivian to stay in business, they will.
They already have Billions in cash on hand.
When you make claims like that, everything you say becomes tainted.
Utter nonsense.
Pro tip: You might want to ratchet it down about three or four notches.
P.S. perhaps less caffeine might help?
I mentioned thinking the same thing about BYD numbers a few year back, because they did have a lot of PHEV's (not regular hybrids). But then I tried to corroborate that looking around for more data on 2022 numbers, and found things changed a lot in the past two years, and corrected myself. On top of that, latest numbers including June published on Insideevs on Friday, they do still sell a lot of PHEV's but the number that was in question here is all BEV's:
BYD plug-in sales year-to-date:
- BEVs: 323,520 (up 237% year-over-year)
- PHEVs: 314,637 (up 454% year-over-year)
- Total: 638,157 (up 325% year-over-year)
When you make claims like that, everything you say becomes tainted.
The US isn't only country in the world. In figures Stuart's providing, Toyota in H1 2022 in the US alone sold more vehicles that Tesla has done worldwide in an entire year.
Per Sales, Production, and Export Results for 2021 (January - December) | Sales, Production, and Export Results | Profile | Company | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website, in 2021, Toyota sold 9.6 million vehicles worldwide, not including Daihatsu and Hino. Wholly-owned subsidary Daihatsu contributed another 725K vehicles.
Tesla Q4 2021 Vehicle Production & Deliveries | Tesla Investor Relations is what Tesla achieved, in comparison. In other words, in unit sales 1.29 Daihatsus.
Per Sales, Production, and Export Results for 2021 (January - December) | Sales, Production, and Export Results | Profile | Company | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website, in 2021, Toyota sold 9.6 million vehicles worldwide, not including Daihatsu and Hino. Wholly-owned subsidary Daihatsu contributed another 725K vehicles.
Tesla Q4 2021 Vehicle Production & Deliveries | Tesla Investor Relations is what Tesla achieved, in comparison. In other words, in unit sales 1.29 Daihatsus.
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Unless I am missing something, this thread is about BEV sales, not ICE sales. The better comparison would be how many Toyota BEV sales were made H1 2022. Don't feel like looking it up but can't be many.
If we're talking solely about the US, I think alot of these manufactures will inevitably catch up in total sales; Tesla will probably be the leader for the near future though. We're still pretty early into EV transformation. The US just passed the 5% "tipping point" for EVs, and is estimated to be at 25% in 2025. I dont see Tesla increasing current manufacturing 5-fold in the next three years, which potentially would leave an overwhelming share of the market to non-Tesla OEMs. Europe is sitting at 22% EV marketshare. In EU, Tesla is still the overwhelming #1 sales leader, but the sales disparities amongst manufacturers arent nearly as bad as the US (the EU EV market is more mature.) With more competition coming on every year, most of the market still up for grabs (78% in EU vs 95% here in the US), and just Tesla's own production limits, others manufacturers will have to come up. I think we could see a scenario where the Model 3 and Y are the best selling vehicles of their class, but other OEMs are selling more vehicles overall.
Outside of that, EV infrastructure seems to be a big focus for the next couple years, and when Tesla opens up the supercharger network for third party charging via CCS (like they have done in EU), I could see more people shifting to other choices as well.
This is of course ignoring any economy-related impacts of selling mostly $60K+ vehicles. I honestly dont know how the median US household income (~mid $60K) can afford 1 EV (let alone 2 of them.)
Outside of that, EV infrastructure seems to be a big focus for the next couple years, and when Tesla opens up the supercharger network for third party charging via CCS (like they have done in EU), I could see more people shifting to other choices as well.
This is of course ignoring any economy-related impacts of selling mostly $60K+ vehicles. I honestly dont know how the median US household income (~mid $60K) can afford 1 EV (let alone 2 of them.)
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Well said !
How ridiculous. Look at Toyota availability ( you can drive one home today from my local dealer, plenty of stock ) whereas a Model Y requires a 12 month wait.
Errm, have you tried to buy a new car - any new car - recently and get it delivered at short notice? Forget about it. Either you get what the dealer happens to have in his showroom and is willing to sell or you should be prepared for a long waiting period.
A bog standard VW ICE built in Europe? We are talking about delivery at the end of Q4 if you are lucky. As to id.3, id.4 or Enyak you are lucky if you are going to get it in 2023.
I'm working in a large company and we used to have plenty of leased company cars sitting in our car pool that were returned early because the employee had left the company, was sent abroad etc. etc. Now cars going into the "pool" are often getting snapped up in less than half an hour.
So frustrating chatting to you about this!
You seemingly won’t accept that in 5 years few will want ice cars !
Tesla were alone in the EV market for 10 years Ice vehicle manufacturers cannot change their entire range of vehicles from ice to EV in 5 years.
