Who else is disappointed about the base model 3 batterie. 50 kWh/ 220miles

[Phrixotrichus]

the only thing I´m disappointed about is that it will probably take till 2019 until the Model 3 is available in Europe and that it will most likely be more expensive than a mid-line 5-series/e-class. with just pup and the battery expansion ...
But I guess that`s not Tesla`s problem.

 

[techmaven]

What is the real comfortable/ mainly city driving range of the base model 3?

I think this may be the root of your misconceptions. The 220 estimated EPA range is a mix of city and highway driving. It does skew towards city driving, but your fears are unfounded. First of all, let’s look at some real data. Here is an article that points to the raw data submitted to the EPA for the long range version:

New Tesla Model 3 details revealed by EPA: ~80 kWh battery pack, 258 hp, and more

On the dyno test with UDDS test methodology (city driving) the 310 mile range Model 3 drove for 495 miles on a charge. There are some corrective factors that need to be added, but they are minor since aerodynamics has little effect at these speeds and the Model 3 is so slippery. The switch to permanent magnet motors means that the city range is going to be pretty high. Plenty of Bolt owners see much higher than EPA range when they drive in city conditions and don’t drive particularly in a lean way. Therefore, getting well above 220 miles in normal city driving in good weather can be expected. Not to mention driving around at an average of 20 mph at 80% of 220+ miles of range is upwards of 6-8 hours of driving. Every day with 6-8 hours of driving is approaching taxi cab levels. The Bolt is rated at 255 miles of city EPA range, which is almost too much since that represents 10 hours of city driving at 80% charge (too much in the sense that one pays for a big battery and the weight).

The big issue is mitigating the range robbing effects of high speed. This is where I had hoped Tesla would continue to use induction motors, but they didn’t. But here is where the 0.23 Cd shines over the Bolt’s 0.3. The penalty for driving at 65 to 80 mph is far less. There is a crossover point in speed where the range of the standard battery Model 3 exceeds the range of the Bolt. We don’t know for sure what speed that is, but I suspect somewhere between 65 and 75 mph.

 

[Chuq]

I'm a bit disappointed that tesla can not beat the 60kwh Gm bolt which is probably much superior in the city and much cheaper after there $5000 haggling discount.

Hang on, why are you comparing it to the Bolt, which we will never get here in Australia?

 

[Topher]

Teslas except the Model 3. It appears the Model 3 will have better city range than highway range.

'Appears' where exactly?

Thank you kindly.

 

[SageBrush]

'Appears' where exactly?

The EPA certification shows UDDS and HIghway ranges of ~ 495 and 454 miles, respectively.
The ratio works out to 131 MPGe city and 120 MPGe highway, which if you squint look like the numbers on the poorly photographed Monroney sticker.

120 MPGe EPA highway is outstanding, equal to the Prius Prime and IIRC only bested by the Hyundai Ioniq. The SR Model 3 may yet take the crown, and will certainly be within spitting distance.

 

[Topher]

don't be disappointed, particularly when comparing any manufacturers' published figures - they are always rosy

They are always based on EPA testing.

Do not taunt supercharger.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Topher]

the slow supercharging rate for the base Model 3, which I don't think any of us expected would be that low.

The range is set by battery pack size, and efficiency. Supercharger rate is set by pack size. Since Tesla was able to improve the efficiency, that means a smaller battery pack to get the promised range (and promised price), which means a slower recharge rate.

What would you prefer they change?

Thank you kindly.

 

[JeffK]

however the supercharge speed is a bit slower then expected.

That and the slow supercharging rate for the base Model 3, which I don't think any of us expected would be that low.

In miles per minute it charges comparable to a premium Model S (S100D or P100D) according to Elon... What exactly are you disappointed with?

 

[SageBrush]

The range is set by battery pack size, and efficiency. Supercharger rate is set by pack size. Since Tesla was able to improve the efficiency, that means a smaller battery pack to get the promised range (and promised price), which means a slower recharge rate.

All true, but the final miles per time charge is ballpark Model S. I forgot ... what was the complaint about (not you) ?

 

[JeffK]

what was the complaint about

There's an unsubstantiated rumor that persists on TMC about slow supercharging on the Model 3.

 

[ecarfan]

My dilemma is I don't want to pay $9000US for the bigger batterie but the base model range is a little bit on the small side.

You appear to have expected Tesla to provide you with an EV that meets your internal expectations which I would say have no relationship to reality. Therefore, you are disappointed. And then you want to have an over 300 mile range EV but you don't want to pay more than a few thousand dollars extra for that. Again, not realistic.

Tesla has delivered a base Model 3 that does what Elon said it would do and at the target price, and a battery option that amazed just about everyone with its range. In addition, the car is gorgeous and has features that no other EV can match except for the S/X.

I'm glad you said you were going to buy a 3 even if the base range falls short of what you were imagining/hoping/dreaming it would.

 

[scaesare]

Considering:
1- it's recommended you only charge the batterie for 85-90 % to increase life
2- Radio on with aircon/ heater cause considerable less range.
3- 220miles based on only the driver not the whole family and luggage.
4- 220miles based on a lot of highway driving and taking advantage of the m3 good C.O of 23 which is less effective in city driving.
5-220miles based on not having a heavy foot and always only gradually getting up to speed.
6- -20 to 30 miles to save you range anxiety.
7 - cold weather range loss
8 - tyres not pumped up to optimal pressure
9 - 1 off 5 miles loss from max new range after a month or 2

As you can see there are a lot of things affecting the range. I'm a bit disappointed that tesla can not beat the 60kwh Gm bolt which is probably much superior in the city and much cheaper after there $5000 haggling discount.

My dilemma is I don't want to pay $9000US for the bigger batterie but the base model range is a little bit on the small side. When you look at the weight of the base model it's only a little bit heavier than a c class but with a much better centre of gravity. So I think the base model will handle/ drive better than its competitors and even drive better than its bigger batterie m3 version which is almost 400 pounds heavier And that's a lot for this size car. So there are positives for the base model.
However
I wish the batterie size was 60kwh not 50kwh
And
What is the real comfortable/ mainly city driving range of the base model 3?
And do you guys who are considering the base model feel the same way as me that you just wish it had a bit more range?
Did Tesla Offer a 50kwh base version on purpose - talking advantage of there massive order base and forcing people to upgrade to the bigger batterie for increase profits?
I know this thread is a bit negative and everyone will pounce on me but my attention is not to stop anybody from buying a m3 as I think it's a great car and I'm still going to buy one myself.

1) Just about everything you lists affects every EV equally. Did you expect that not inflating your tires properly or the additional load of "family or luggage", to somehow not impact the car?

B) My disappointment actually lies with folks who build unrealistic expectations and then when they aren't met fail to do critical evaluation in light of the actual data made available. (i.e. - "It beat the estimated range by 5 miles... bummer!"). But I don't see that as an option on your poll.

III) I'd bet a shiny quarter that, if it was a 60KWh/240mi car rather than a ~50KWh/220 mile car, the title of this thread would be "Is anybody disappointed the Model 3 is so inefficient with the Wh-per-mile it gets?"

 

[SageBrush]

There's an unsubstantiated rumor that persists on TMC about slow supercharging on the Model 3.

Ah yes, that bit of arithmetic challenged click-bait

Seems pretty clear that peak Model 3 charging rates will be at least 60 kW and highway efficiency about 25% higher than a 100 kWh Model S, for a normalized charging rate of 60*1.25 = 75 kW equivalent.

That is 1C. If 1.2C is offered (not at all outside of the realm of possible if not likely), then 90 kW equivalent. I just hope they can keep up the high rate to 70% SoC. That will be awesome.

 

[SageBrush]

B) My disappointment actually lies with folks who build unrealistic expectations and then when they aren't met fail to do critical evaluation in light of the actual data made available

EXACTLY

Marketers love hype, or so I am told. I hate it.

 

[JeffK]

Ah yes, that bit of arithmetic challenged click-bait

Seems pretty clear that peak Model 3 charging rates will be at least 60 kW and highway efficiency about 25% higher than a 100 kWh Model S, for a normalized charging rate of 60*1.25 = 75 kW equivalent.

That is 1C. If 1.2C is offered (not at all outside of the realm of possible if not likely), then 90 kW equivalent. I just hope they can keep up the high rate to 70% SoC. That will be awesome.

Yes, Elon did say it's comparable to S100D/P100D charge rate (in miles/minute)

 

[cdub]

I had hoped they'd match or beat the Bolt's 238 miles, and I think the $9k is a bit steep for the upgrade.

$9k for 25 more kw and 100 miles more range is CHEAP!

 

[SageBrush]

$9k for 25 more kw and 100 miles more range is CHEAP!

kWh

 

[tescroft]

You may be disappointed on many things Musk once implied in his statements, but Model 3 range is definitly something Tesla is delivering what they promised, even ahead of time.

 

[JeffK]

$9k for 25 more kw and 100 miles more range is CHEAP!

They were selling 25 kWh upgrades for $10k back in 2013. Have the packs only become 10% cheaper in all that time?

Keep in mind GM sells the Bolt replacement battery at a little over $200 / kWh
24285978 - Genuine GM BATTERY ASM-HIGH VOLTAGE

 

[Topher]

All true, but the final miles per time charge is ballpark Model S.

Not 'but'; 'so'.

Thank you kindly.