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Who else is installing both the 14-50 220v outlet and HPWC?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by carrerascott, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. carrerascott

    carrerascott FUEL FTR

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    In case the HPWC ever goes bad, I'm also installing the standard 14-50 220v outlet I was originally going to install the outlet and then swap it for the HPWC assuming it wouldn't arrive with the car, but realized if that HPWC ever went bad, I'd be dead in the water.

    Pretty cheap backup insurance to have the 220v outlet installed as well, IMHO.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
     
  2. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    I just had two 14-50 plugs installed today via Solar City. Front left and front right. One of them is destined to be replaced with the HPWC when it arrives. Thankfully my plugs are reading 241v to each plug.
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    I installed (5) 14-50's for all my friends, and an HPC, and an HPWC. Fun weekend projects!!
     
  4. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    I'm having both put in as well. It's overkill I know but it's a very new thing to me and I want to be sure.
     
  5. TXjak

    TXjak Owner/Investor/Advocate

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    The HPWC and the 14-50 aren't exactly interchangeable. The HPWC is rated for 100 amp service, the 14-50 is limited to 50 amp service. You could put the HPWC on a 50 amp circuit, but why bother. I don't think you can put the 14-50 on a 100 amp circuit without violating some code.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I was going to but I decided I needed the $1200 more than the HPWC. I might do it later. The reason would be for backup as the UMCs appear to have poor quality control based on all the reports of bad UMCs.
     
  7. aviators99

    aviators99 Model S - R140

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    I installed the 14-50, and have the breaker all set for the HPWC to go along with it. Very cheap, incrementally, to have the backup.
     
  8. ibcs

    ibcs Member

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    I'm keeping the 14-50 installation as a backup. Since, I was one of the ones that had a faulty UMC cable, I'm having a backup charging method via 14-50 and HPC when it is delivered.
     
  9. Al Gordon

    Al Gordon New Member

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    Believe me.......it is best to just install the 50 amp 240 outlet unless your turn around time requires the quick charge eg. You travel more than 200 miles daily.
    Your battery's will be better off with less amps at a longer period. I have a Roadster as well and the storage charge TO MAINTAIN the battery's is at 1/2 a charge. To constantly hit your battery's with a quick charge will in the long term be more detrimental to the longevity of your battery's.
    Save that for Tesla's quick charge stations for the few occasions that you may need them.
     
  10. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    +1 @ 'for friends'. I'm in the process of adding one more 14-50, an HPC (bought one from another forum member), and putting in wiring for an HPWC. It's hard to have a Tesla party without a place for everyone to charge :). And I'll probably just keep using my 14-50. (Five, really? Wow!) Easy to do right now, while redoing the garage. The new insulation/drywall still needs to go up, but not til after the electrical work is finished. PG&E is upgrading service to the house. ("Well, I have a Roadster that I want to charge at 70 amp. And then I have a Model X on order that will be at 80 amp. Plus ..." blah blah blah.)

    FYI - the 14-50 outlet has come in very handy for outdoor house concerts. If you like to host live music, that comes in very handy.
     
  11. aviators99

    aviators99 Model S - R140

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    The factory says that what you say above is untrue for the Model S.
     
  12. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    You can pull #2/#3 wire and put a 50A breaker and 14-50R on it temporarily. The breaker size must not be greater than the maximum rating of the receptacle or wiring.

    In regards to the original post, I have an installation of the HPWC and a 14-50 in the next bay. I'm using the 14-50 temporarily until the HPWC arrives. I will keep it there as a backup.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    I'll have both, my electrician put a 200amp subpanel in, I have the 50amp NEMA 14-50, and will have the 100amp HPWC nearby. I hope that one day my wife will have a Model X and we'll be able to both charge at the same time with this set up.
     
  14. MitchL

    MitchL S#945

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    With my recent remodel (and upgrade from 125A to 400A service!) I now have *three* NEMA14-50s. One's outside near the meter pedestal (convenient for guest charging), one in the middle garage bay for the wife's future EV (if I can convince her), and one near the workshop bay for use by machine tools (CNC spindle or welder). The machine tool 14-50 is what I use to charge the car for now, and near the main panel I've got an empty conduit in the wall to run the wires for the HPWC whenever it shows up.

    The only downside to putting both in (especially if they're close to your panel) might be panel spaces. A 50A breaker often needs two full spaces. I hope that a 100A breaker is also only two full spaces. Having both would need 4 panel spaces, and you're generally supposed to leave a couple of unused ones depending on local code.

    In general, I don't think you're allowed to have more than one load on a 220V circuit (so you can't have both the HPWC and an outlet).

    /Mitch.
     
  15. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #15 FlasherZ, Jan 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
    There is no requirement to leave spaces open in the panel. There is only a requirement to size your panel and circuits appropriately for the load that will be presented, and the panel's rating must be equal to or greater than the feeder size.

    In most panels, all 240v breakers take up the same space, whether 20A or 125A. They're double-space because they have to contact both buss bars for the 240v.

    If you're going to make statements, it's a good idea to reference the portion of the code you speak of.

    Two 14-50R's are permitted on the same circuit provided that the maximum offered continuous load doesn't exceed 40A.

    In theory, an HPWC and a 14-50R could co-exist on a 50A circuit, but that really defeats the purpose of the HPWC as the maximum offered current would be 40A and you may as well purchase a UMC for much less.

    You may not install a 14-50R on a branch circuit having a rating higher than 50A.

    This topic is also addressed in the Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A thread.
     
  16. MitchL

    MitchL S#945

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    I have a 175A breaker installed in my main panel (feeds one of the house panels) that takes at least 4 spaces. That's why I was wondering. At some amperage you need to contact the bus bar multiple places per leg to handle the load.

    I didn't quote code (don't have the book handy), did not imply I was an authority, and I believe you if you say it's not a code thing. I did ask the electrician that wired my house about putting more than one outlet on a breaker and he said "it was frowned upon", but it may be that our city inspector doesn't like it.

    Likewise, our inspector expects to see at least two empty spaces in a new panel for new construction. He's probably just being pedantic.

    /Mitch.
    (who'll keep quiet now)
     
  17. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    That's true for larger currents on some distribution panels, as you note. Up to 150A, though, double-space is fine.

    That's why I suggest the code reference. Nothing negative intended by it; there are so many inspectors with their own ideas on what's required. As you've likely seen, mknox and I constantly have to tweak our answers to reflect various code differences out there. There may be an AHJ who has outlawed multiple receptacles on the same circuit for a local jurisdiction, and I don't know about it.

    I can tell you that it is not really practical to have multiple 50A receptacles on a single circuit, because two appliances operated at the same time will likely exceed the branch circuit rating. That said, if you're looking at great flexibility in places to charge and want to install 3 receptacles but know you'll only ever use 1, you can do that.

    I've seen a lot of "likes to haves" versus "required to have", and it's typically the AHJ being a bit pedantic. That's why I ask for code references, because I hate to see misinformation out there. Again, not intended to be a slam - but there so much misinformation about what is "to code".
     
  18. 4sevens.com

    4sevens.com Member

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    I did the exact same thing... Had the guys pull a 100A cable to a new fusebox in the garage and then pulled a 50A to a 14-50... expandable for the future :)
     

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