Who has lost regen with winter tires?

[dusdev]

I disagree, the more we can help isolate the issue the better.

Until we have more reports of issues with regen with just a firmware update and no other changes (given the widespread rollout of 42.x), I'm not really convinced. In either case whatever you are experiencing would be a separate issue. This discussion is about the almost unanimous reports that snow tires are causing these issues across all fw versions.

The problem is confirmation bias. The thread titles and timing is misleading. 42.x was rolled out around the same time as winter tires were being installed. Also, the first incoming reports were with RWD because the bulk of Model 3's in the field are RWDs. Now pcon confirms his AWD shows the issue. Myself and at least two others on this forum have reported an issue with regen around the same time when the firmware was updated (with non-winter, AWD). Simply there is not enough data to support that a) this is a winter tire-only thing or b) this is a RWD only thing.

I do believe that winter tires are exacerbating a firmware flaw with the Model 3's regen. I believe that it is more prevalent on 42.x than 39.x. I don't think it's exclusive to RWD.

 

[Darthbenji]

For my part the issue was there on 39. I drove to the tire shop with full regen. Left without it. When I got 42 I hoped it would improve. It didn’t.

 

[MP3Mike]

I believe that it is more prevalent on 42.x than 39.x. I don't think it's exclusive to RWD.

Nobody has said that only RWD has regen issues, but it appears that only RWD has regen issues caused by snow tires before 2018.42.x.

I think there are at least two separate issues, that may, or may not, be resolved by Tesla at the same time. (Obviously the regen code is different between the RWD and AWD, since only the RWD cars received the notice about increased regen in the recent updates.)

 

[realtycoon]

I had 42.4 before putting on my winters on my RWD. There was definitely a change in regen after putting on winter tires (Michelin xice3)

 

[eepic]

The problem is confirmation bias. The thread titles and timing is misleading. 42.x was rolled out around the same time as winter tires were being installed. Also, the first incoming reports were with RWD because the bulk of Model 3's in the field are RWDs. Now pcon confirms his AWD shows the issue. Myself and at least two others on this forum have reported an issue with regen around the same time when the firmware was updated (with non-winter, AWD). Simply there is not enough data to support that a) this is a winter tire-only thing or b) this is a RWD only thing.

I do believe that winter tires are exacerbating a firmware flaw with the Model 3's regen. I believe that it is more prevalent on 42.x than 39.x. I don't think it's exclusive to RWD.

The issue and this thread pre-dated 42.x, it has nothing to do with confirmation bias. I'm still on 39.7 and have the issue after switching to winter tires.

I don't really buy your argument given how widespread 42.x is distributed and how few users are reporting issues with fw change alone, but maybe you're right and there's a separate issue. Once again though, this thread is discussing how pretty much *everyone* who has switched winter tires is experiencing this issue immediately after the tire swap.

 

[Atari2600]

So what is the issue exactly at highway speed? No green bar and no regen? Or is there a green bar and no/weak regen? I have AWD, Nokian R3, 2018.42.4 ccb9715. Seems fine to me I purchased a second set of aero wheels, TPMS from Tesla service and they installed the Nokian tires and swapped out the wheels for me. I drove off and they registered pressure within a minute at 40 PSI.

 

[huangbong]

The WRG4's are awesome. Now that the release compound has worn off they're nicely grippy in the cold and wet. Since I'm down south, we don't get much snow and ice so I can't comment there, but they're clearly better than summer tires or all-season tires on wet cold roads.

I also had a set of WRG3's on my leased Model S, they were very similar -- nice and safe road feel in the cold/wet.

Nice, are you planning on running them year round? Is the handling with them as good as the stock tires?

 

[dusdev]

So what is the issue exactly at highway speed? No green bar and no regen? Or is there a green bar and no/weak regen? I have AWD, Nokian R3, 2018.42.4 ccb9715. Seems fine to me I purchased a second set of aero wheels, TPMS from Tesla service and they installed the Nokian tires and swapped out the wheels for me. I drove off and they registered pressure within a minute at 40 PSI.

Exact same tire config as you - AWD, 18" aero w/ Nokian R3's. At highway speeds, releasing the pedal results in a solid green bar with no apparent deceleration force (car just coasts). Once the car coasting slows it down, the regen kicks in at lower speeds. Interestingly, during the coasting the picture of the car on the screen doesn't show brake lights either. Once the regen kicks in at low speed the brake lights on the screen show up.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Nice, are you planning on running them year round? Is the handling with them as good as the stock tires?

No, I won't be running them year-round. I'll put summer tires on when temperatures are high enough.

Handling is good, and I would say better than expected from a winter tire. They of course cannot compete with summer tires though.

 

[CCIE]

Exact same tire config as you - AWD, 18" aero w/ Nokian R3's. At highway speeds, releasing the pedal results in a solid green bar with no apparent deceleration force (car just coasts). Once the car coasting slows it down, the regen kicks in at lower speeds. Interestingly, during the coasting the picture of the car on the screen doesn't show brake lights either. Once the regen kicks in at low speed the brake lights on the screen show up.

Again, I don't doubt that you're experiencing an issue, but it's not the winter tire regen issue. With winter tires on RWD M3 at higher speeds, the green bar appears very briefly and then disappears or gets very short.

The winter tire regen issue started before v39, and reports indicate that v42 either had no impact or helped it slightly. This the opposite of what you're seeing.

I don't mean to be rude, but no sense clogging up this thread with a different issue. I think I've actually seen a thread around here with AWD owners complaining about reduced regen with v42.

 

[dusdev]

Again, I don't doubt that you're experiencing an issue, but it's not the winter tire regen issue. With winter tires on RWD M3 at higher speeds, the green bar appears very briefly and then disappears or gets very short.

The winter tire regen issue started before v39, and reports indicate that v42 either had no impact or helped it slightly. This the opposite of what you're seeing.

I don't mean to be rude, but no sense clogging up this thread with a different issue. I think I've actually seen a thread around here with AWD owners complaining about reduced regen with v42.

I do appreciate your position. However before you accuse one of muddying up the thread, I propose that you go back to Page 1 and read through it. Early posts have zero mention of the green bar disappearing. In fact, the thread contains early reports of people seeing the issue without winter tires.

In addition, the thread has posts from people with winter tires NOT experiencing the issue. Are they clogging up the thread also? My answer I believe is the best hypothesis. A design flaw in the regen firmware that is exacerbated by winter tires. It is not going to affect all vehicles/tires/configuration in the same way.

 

[Bluewish]

I have tested my X over the weekend and this is what I found out: The setting show Standard Regen but the "actual" regen was Low. It might be a system glitch after the software updated. I switched my setting to Low, left it overnight and switched back to Standard the next morning, the regen was back to normal.

A similar thing happened to my Live Traffic display after updating software couple of months ago. The Live Traffic icon was on but no Live Traffic data was showing up. I had to turn on and off couple of time, reset the screen and finally was able to make it work.

 

[pqumsieh]

The problem is confirmation bias. The thread titles and timing is misleading. 42.x was rolled out around the same time as winter tires were being installed. Also, the first incoming reports were with RWD because the bulk of Model 3's in the field are RWDs. Now pcon confirms his AWD shows the issue. Myself and at least two others on this forum have reported an issue with regen around the same time when the firmware was updated (with non-winter, AWD). Simply there is not enough data to support that a) this is a winter tire-only thing or b) this is a RWD only thing.

I do believe that winter tires are exacerbating a firmware flaw with the Model 3's regen. I believe that it is more prevalent on 42.x than 39.x. I don't think it's exclusive to RWD.

I believe you are right in noting that both the firmware and change of tires are at fault. I first noticed an issue when I did a firmware update on Nov 4. I remember driving home and feeling like the regen was off. The next day I installed the winter tires and again noticed a decrease in regen performance.

It is difficult for me to be confident in saying that the winter tires are the primary source of the problem, since I initially noticed the problem a day before. It could be that I had not clearly assessed how much of a decrease in regen the firmware update had caused. Or it could be that the winter tires just made it so extreme that it was hard to miss.

 

[Mtlgambler]

Update. Got a call from Tesla and they want me to take my car to Service center to verify the alignment? It sounds like a really bizarre thing to verify and I highly doubt that this would cause the limited regen but they say they were able to detect the alignement was slightly off remotely. It’s starting to sound like they really aren’t sure what is causing the problem and are using the old trial and error method to eliminate variables. The first appointment they could get for me was Nov 30th so it wouldn’t hold your breath for a solution any time soon.

 

[dusdev]

Update. Got a call from Tesla and they want me to take my car to Service center to verify the alignment? It sounds like a really bizarre thing to verify and I highly doubt that this would cause the limited regen but they say they were able to detect the alignement was slightly off remotely. It’s starting to sound like they really aren’t sure what is causing the problem and are using the old trial and error method to eliminate variables. The first appointment they could get for me was Nov 30th so it wouldn’t hold your breath for a solution any time soon.

You should send them a link to this forum and this one: Regen today seems way worse.... They may not realize that this issue is just going to get worse the more people start putting on winters (probably starting this week in heavy numbers).

 

[fidodido]

I do have regen issue with Conti winter contact so on stock 18". Do you guys notice that traction control kicks in quite often if you accelerate fast? I noticed after I installed winter tires. It tends to kick in even if on dry road. I think it's related to low regen issue and want to know if others are noticing it as well.
Thanks,

 

[Darthbenji]

I do have regen issue with Conti winter contact so on stock 18". Do you guys notice that traction control kicks in quite often if you accelerate fast? I noticed after I installed winter tires. It tends to kick in even if on dry road. I think it's related to low regen issue and want to know if others are noticing it as well.
Thanks,

Yes but only if I really put my foot in it

 

[BlueWRXPride]

I do have regen issue with Conti winter contact so on stock 18". Do you guys notice that traction control kicks in quite often if you accelerate fast? I noticed after I installed winter tires. It tends to kick in even if on dry road. I think it's related to low regen issue and want to know if others are noticing it as well.
Thanks,

I think that's solely due to lower dry traction on winter tires compared to all season tires. I have the same thing but thought nothing of it.

 

[mswlogo]

Tires changing, Temps changing and Firmware changing. With drivers having variable lengths of experience. It’s hard to conclude anything at this point.

Even with no dots. Stock all seasons. Highway regen seems fairly light (it’s definitely there but light). This is still at fairly cool temps 45F and only shortly after dots WERE there. That’s with 42.4 firmware on AWD.

I would not be convinced firmware is impacting things until temps stay above 60F for a day.

I sure wish we had battery temp display. And cooling system temps.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Tires changing, Temps changing and Firmware changing. With drivers having variable lengths of experience. It’s hard to conclude anything at this point.

Even with no dots. Stock all seasons. Highway regen seems fairly light (it’s definitely there but light). This is still at fairly cool temps 45F and only shortly after dots WERE there. That’s with 42.4 firmware on AWD.

I would not be convinced firmware is impacting things until temps stay above 60F for a day.

I sure wish we had battery temp display. And cooling system temps.

Would be a nice update since the sensors are there to monitor these variables. It will come one day!