Who has lost regen with winter tires?

[3MM3]

Add myself to the list. I just got my winter tires on Monday in Toronto.

3rd party alloys (~22 lbs each)
Michelin X-ICE 235/45R18
Version: 42.3

It was ~ 5C when I got new winters on the car. The car had full regen when I got to the tire shop and full regen when I left. The moment I released the accelerator pedal at ~ 60km/h regen had noticeably less stopping power. I didn't have any low regen "dots" on my display.

emailed Tesla NA, and cc/d Tesla Lawrence. Got a call back an hour later saying that "it's a problem they're aware of and actively working. Will be fixed in a future firmware update, no ETA".

 

[more863-also]

I am extremely close to trying to cancel my RWD order and change it to AWD. I was on the fence, but this issue is ridiculous and I'm not going to ride around with inconsistent regen half the year.

 

[dusdev]

I am extremely close to trying to cancel my RWD order and change it to AWD. I was on the fence, but this issue is ridiculous and I'm not going to ride around with inconsistent regen half the year.

Too bad the issue is also on AWD. See pcon's post from yesterday:

So, I changed over to my winter tires this weekend and re-measured the regen force, and even on my AWD I do see a difference in the regen at high speed, and then at low speeds it seems 'normal' as others have noted. Below is a plot with some markups of the comparisons, but to make sure I'm clear on the configs:

 

[more863-also]

Too bad the issue is also on AWD. See pcon's post from yesterday:

I also see multiple posts, in this thread, saying their AWD is unaffected. Are you saying it's untrue that this issue is more prevalent on the RWD?

 

[dusdev]

I also see multiple posts, in this thread, saying their AWD is unaffected. Are you saying it's untrue that this issue is more prevalent on the RWD?

Correct, I believe it's untrue. I think more RWD owners are reporting the issue simply because there are more RWD in existence. Ontario only started getting deliveries of AWD in September. The reports of the issue on AWD will start coming in as they are now.

To add my own experience to the mix. I have an AWD. I had Nokian R3 winters installed on Monday. Prior, I was experience regen loss at highway speeds (likely related to FW update to 42.3). With the winters installed, I'm now experiencing even more regen loss. This time at lower speeds, below 60 km/h. Today I almost crashed into oncoming traffic going around a curve I usually take because the car didn't regen brake as it has for the prior 1.5 months. No indication of reduced regen on the screen, no more 'dots' than usual. I was going around 65 km/h. I got zero regen as a I released the pedal and had to unexpectantly hit the brake going around a curve.

 

[Whisky]

I do have regen issue with Conti winter contact so on stock 18". Do you guys notice that traction control kicks in quite often if you accelerate fast? I noticed after I installed winter tires. It tends to kick in even if on dry road. I think it's related to low regen issue and want to know if others are noticing it as well.
Thanks,

This is relatively normal behaviour for any car with a lot of power and traction control. The soft rubber tricks the car into thinking the wheels are slipping, and traction control kicks in to slow tire spin.

 

[mswlogo]

I had stock on, then X-Ice Xi3 snows for ~5 days, then put stock back on. No change on AWD.

But Cool Temps are dominating my regen behavior. I always have some regen at highway speeds. But it can be pretty light until it slows down (even with no dots). Don’t think I’m getting full regen (with stock tires) even after no dots (not 100% sure). This is with it 30-40F out. I actually like the way it is right now (very smooth and generally consistent and not too aggressive on highway).

I plan to put Xi3 back on soon (maybe tonight). 5-8” snow in forecast tomorrow night.

 

[eepic]

I also see multiple posts, in this thread, saying their AWD is unaffected. Are you saying it's untrue that this issue is more prevalent on the RWD?

There's a disagreement on this thread whether AWD is affected, from the information available if I recall correctly:
- All RWD owners are experiencing this issue switching to winter tires
- Two AWD owners are experiencing this issue switching to winter tires, a bunch of others state they are not

I think it's fair to say the winter tire regen issue is at least "more prevalent" on RWD. That said, it took about an hour or two for me to adapt to it (after 10,000km on stock summers), so I'd categorize it as an annoyance... you also have the option to just set regen to low so its consistent. Tesla also seems to be looking into it and I think it's likely they'll have a fix in the coming weeks/months, so I wouldn't base a RWD vs AWD decision on this.

TL;DR Probably a RWD issue, but we're just being picky RWD still drives fine.

 

[more863-also]

Sounds like a huge safety issue that makes me want to cancel my order completely.

I don't want to change my regen settings to 'fix' an issue than a Leaf doesn't have, a Volt doesn't have, etc. Tesla won't be paying for my increased brake wear, either.

 

[kaoru]

I haven't put on my winter tires yet on my M3 RWD, still running stock 18" naked Aeros. I'm waiting for my Nokian Hakkas R3s to arrive which will go on the stock rims. Regen has changed since the update (42.3, installed by mobile Ranger) and with the cold weather just starting. I've noticed less regen when at higher speeds (> 60 kph) and regen really kicking in between 60-15 kph with no regen below 15 kph . This is when no dots are showing on the gauge. When I read the release notes about more regen, I tried it, and then noticed the lack of regen which puzzled me.

 

[Darthbenji]

Increased brake wear will become a major gripe if the problem persists for very long. No brake jobs was a selling point. At pickup alone I was told brakes will last about 180k because of the regen.

Having said all of that, I suspect the problem lies with a very system that is light years ahead of Nissan or Chevrolet. Not saying that’s the problem, it’s just my guess.

 

[more863-also]

It's funny how this system that's light years beyond Nissan doesn't perform as well as my Leaf, which was designed in 2009-2010.

 

[Darthbenji]

It's funny how this system that's light years beyond Nissan doesn't perform as well as my Leaf, which was designed in 2009-2010.

Yes. I agree. I think the advanced technology had an unintended consequence.

Don’t get me wrong, this issue really bugs me and I’m happy to hold Tesla’s feet to the fire over it. Slip detection being more sensitive than your Leaf isn’t a negative. It not working properly is.

AND, this is the best post I’ve read on either board.

I have literally never heard of 'this is the only tire spec'd for the car' unless we're talking incredibly exotic automobiles. There is no other car in this price bracket that can ONLY take one type of tire.

I don't know if the issue is fixable - they haven't fixed it yet, and there is no ETA. And the lack of regen would be the 'not as advertised', unless you can point me to the little * on the site that says "regen will spontaneously change intensity when using winter tires".

Is this guy just another Tesla water carrier like PNWmisty, folks? I'm not interested in gargling Elon's balls, I would like a properly working car as unreasonable as that may be.

Maybe it’s because it says what I wanted to say but was told I’d be banned if I did. Mostly because I can’t stand blind sycophants that will excuse anything, and this summed it perfectly. Gargling??? Ha ha ha.
Anyhow, I loved it. Really well done More863.

 

[CCIE]

Tesla has already ack

I also see multiple posts, in this thread, saying their AWD is unaffected. Are you saying it's untrue that this issue is more prevalent on the RWD?

One guy posted some good before/after G-tests from his AWD M3. It does appear that winter tires also reduce regen on AWD cars, but it’s much less noticable than RWD.

Separately, there are some AWD owners posting in this thread who have regen issues unrelated to winter tires. Unfortunately that’s just muddying the waters.

If I were an AWD owner, I would not be at all concerned about winter tires causing me regen issues.

 

[dusdev]

If I were an AWD owner, I would not be at all concerned about winter tires causing me regen issues.

This is so wrong. The reason AWD owners haven't been too vocal about this yet is because simply there are less AWD cars on the road in Canada. AWD was only delivered starting in September. So there are many more RWD on the road now with winter tires and hence the reports are mainly coming from people with RWD.

I have an AWD. I have reduced regen from winter tires. I don't understand why there is a big RWD vs. AWD debate on this. The bottom line is that winter tires + Model 3 results in reduced regen. Let's not focus on the specific configurations. Let's focus on having Tesla find the root cause an apply a fix to all cars.

 

[dusdev]

I haven't put on my winter tires yet on my M3 RWD, still running stock 18" naked Aeros. I'm waiting for my Nokian Hakkas R3s to arrive which will go on the stock rims. Regen has changed since the update (42.3, installed by mobile Ranger) and with the cold weather just starting. I've noticed less regen when at higher speeds (> 60 kph) and regen really kicking in between 60-15 kph with no regen below 15 kph . This is when no dots are showing on the gauge. When I read the release notes about more regen, I tried it, and then noticed the lack of regen which puzzled me.

This thread discusses reduced regen likely due to the FW update: Regen today seems way worse...

 

[Darthbenji]

This is so wrong. The reason AWD owners haven't been too vocal about this yet is because simply there are less AWD cars on the road in Canada. AWD was only delivered starting in September. So there are many more RWD on the road now with winter tires and hence the reports are mainly coming from people with RWD.

I have an AWD. I have reduced regen from winter tires. I don't understand why there is a big RWD vs. AWD debate on this. The bottom line is that winter tires + Model 3 results in reduced regen. Let's not focus on the specific configurations. Let's focus on having Tesla find the root cause an apply a fix to all cars.

I have to agree. If AWD owners are reporting the same thing once swapping to winters they are as believable as RWD owner. Providing the two known causes of reduced regen have been eliminated. In the beginning it appeared it was RWD only as most with the issue had RWD.

If a bag has 80% blue chips and 20% red ones, it stands to reason you’re likely to pull a blue one out of the bag. It’s also possible that the AWD is less susceptible given the tire whereas it certainly seems most RWDs will exhibit the problem.

In the end, we want it sorted, for anyone that has the issue.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Getting my winter tires installed in an hour. Bye bye sweet regen.

 

[Darthbenji]

Please post your experience Tony

 

[richyrich]

Getting my winter tires installed in an hour. Bye bye sweet regen.

LOL, take it easy - you might be surprised how easily you can now go free-wheeling into anything in front of you. Gotta start learning to use brakes again!