Who has solar power at their home? Please chime in....

[RubberToe]

I don’t know if ur local power company XCel has strict rules about that or not, but here in SoCal, Ladwp has the same restriction. But I was able to go 200% size than their limitation. I convinced them that Im going to add 2 more electric cars to my house. Gave them the kW calculation for one car. They did their math and came up to me with a number and asked me to show the confirmation for ordering new cars.

yes I showed them that I have 2 model 3 reservations at that time then they approved my solar system. After that, I cancelled my m3 reservations :|

I love it when someone works the system for the greater good! I'm producing 200% of my usage with a similar "reverse scam".

RT

 

[d21mike]

I love it when someone works the system for the greater good! I'm producing 200% of my usage with a similar "reverse scam".

RT

I have been following the debate on Climate Change recently and especially this past week with the UN etc. If it is truly a crisis why would you have to game the system? You would think if anyone that owns a home that is willing and can afford to install 200% should be encouraged to do so. Right? Maybe the 30% rebate (that is being reduced)? How will we ever get off of Fossils Fuels if we do not start buying EV's and start installing much much more Solar and other renewables? I would have thought with all of the debate this would have been top on the list but I seldom hear anything about what we can actually do for ourself's that would make a difference. They even say there is really nothing you as an individual can do that would make a difference. The example comes up as drive less? But not that we should get rid of our ICE Cars and buy EV ASAP. Or if you own a home get Solar and a Battery Backup System installed "this year" as a crisis!

Anyway, I see a lot of discussions on here about the ROI of Installing Solar and/or Battery Backup with very little discussion on it should be done because we have a Climate Crisis. I.E. You should not install Solar if there is not a ROI within so many years etc.

To be honest, I have ordered Solar and Battery backup because I just bought a second Tesla and I want a battery backup for power outage and because I just want to do it. I have never been one of those that protest about Climate Change or anything for that matter. But since thinking about it from a problem solver perspective it does seem to be a simple direction for the country to go in if we really do have a Climate Change Crisis.

 

[RubberToe]

@dgpcolorado really hit the nail on the head with this earlier post:

My take on solar is somewhat different from the "green eyeshade" ROI calculations. I put in my first 700 watt array in 2008 as "phase 1" of a future electric car. The panels were not remotely cost-effective back then (35 year payback) but I budgeted it as part of the price of an electric car. In 2012, after driving an electric car for awhile, I knew what my actual electricity usage was so I added another 1470 watt array, putting my total at 2170 watts. As before, solar prices were much higher then than now so my new array wasn't cost-effective — I considered it part of the cost of my electric car. My view is that "people by less useful toys than solar panels, do they not?" It seems odd to me that people will calculate ROI on solar panels to the penny but then go out and buy a fancy new car, when buying a used car, or just keeping the old one, is far more cost-effective. Doesn't make sense. No, my solar arrays weren't cost-effective but I'd much rather have them than a hot tub or boat or some such thing. I like "driving on sunshine" and I seem to be something of an early adopter when it comes to doing that.

This basically comes down to the "capitalist/consumerist" mind set, for lack of a better phrase. For things like utilities, electricity specifically, the thinking is that one needs to spend the absolute smallest amount possible for the amount of power they will be consuming. On the larger utility scale, you see this all the time with utilities asking for power providers to provide bids, where the lowest bidder gets the contract. If coal or gas is a bit cheaper than equivalent solar, then the solar loses. Only recently have solar costs dropped, via incentives, to the point where it can compete on a "cost only" basis. Back to the individual now... This is why when many people are considering replacing their utility provided $0.10 electricity, they won't do it unless it is in their financial interest, hence grinding out the ROI calculation as the previous poster questioned.

Alternatively, when one is shopping for a new car, or a new toy that provides direct benefit to the purchaser, very little consideration is given to ROI. Some people are going to buy the $200,000 Porsche Taycan instead of the $50,000 Model 3 or a cheaper car because that is what they want, and the perceived benefit of having the "best", the fastest, the newest, or whatever.

It requires a totally different mindset to look at it like dgpcolorado did. This echoes my own thinking on the subject, though I can't say that I ever voiced it that clearly. I would also say that I over built my solar array to be twice as large as I needed to because, from my perspective, I personally feel better providing pollution free power to my neighbors than I would if I had spent the $6,000 on something that I really don't need, and would probably tire of in any case. Model 3 excluded

I don't know what it would take to get more people to consider the "greater good" when spending their own $$$, or when voting for representatives who will be spending the collective $$$. It could be that November 2020 will provide some insight into the number of people who consider it important to address climate change in the fastest manner possible.

RT

P.S. In the normal "what would you do if you won the lottery" conversations that invariably come up, people are dumbstruck when I say that I would like to replace the Pasadena garbage truck fleet with electric trucks, followed by anonymously starting a program to put solar panels on every home in the City.

 

[Bob M]

There seems to be a big hit on the market value of a house that has leased solar panels. I don't know if the market is being rational or not, but having panels that are owned by somebody else does decrease the price you can get when you sell your house.

I bought solar bonds from Solar City because I liked the idea of enabling the installation of solar for people who lack the capital to pay for it themselves, and I get 5% on ten-year bonds. But when I decided to buy some more, they had quit offering them. I think maybe that part of their business evaporated because nobody wanted to lease panels.

I'd say buy, don't lease.



You fellows are lucky to be getting any credits at all. Solar is so popular here on Maui that the utility won't accept any power from new solar installations. My panels sit idle, producing nothing in spite of abundant sunlight, for a big part of the day, because my Powerwalls are full and my A/C isn't running at the moment. And if I use no grid power at all I still pay a $26.17 monthly minimum. (I can draw about 40 kWh from the grid before my bill goes over that $26.17.) With one more Powerwall I could probably disconnect from the grid entirely, but to save $26/month that would be a poor investment.

I have no regrets about "overbuilding" however, because I'd rather have too much capacity than not enough. But I'd gladly give the utility my excess power for nothing, just to reduce the amount of diesel they burn to run their generators.

As electric cars become more and more popular I would think it might make sense to let a neighbor plug in at a discount rather than waste the power.

 

[Ohmie]

I recently installed solar in my new home (had it in my prior home too). To me it’s a simple payback period computation. How many years before the system pays for itself. Payback periods in SoCal have gotten surprisingly low. I don’t recall my exact figure but I believe it was about 5 years. And that is assuming zero added value if/when the home is sold. So needless to say it was a no brainer.

 

[David_Cary]

To be fair, ROI calcs matter in a world with limited resources. As in everyone's world.
It might be better to invest in a community solar project for instance where money is pooled and more kw's can be installed per dollar. It might be better to get an EV. It might be better to upgrade insulation or get a new hot water heater.
So even if you are fully bought in to the "crisis" argument, ROI still makes sense.
Now if you win the lottery ... it still matters.
Arguably, putting the money into politics might have the best ROI. Crazy thought.
Also ROI arguments can help with the WAF.
I have a larger array than pure ROI would suggest. Partly because a utility rebate maxes out. I was ok with close to 15 years.

(Crisis implies an immediate issue. This is a long term issue. )

 

[d21mike]

To be fair, ROI calcs matter in a world with limited resources. As in everyone's world.
It might be better to invest in a community solar project for instance where money is pooled and more kw's can be installed per dollar. It might be better to get an EV. It might be better to upgrade insulation or get a new hot water heater.
So even if you are fully bought in to the "crisis" argument, ROI still makes sense.
Now if you win the lottery ... it still matters.
Arguably, putting the money into politics might have the best ROI. Crazy thought.
Also ROI arguments can help with the WAF.
I have a larger array than pure ROI would suggest. Partly because a utility rebate maxes out. I was ok with close to 15 years.

(Crisis implies an immediate issue. This is a long term issue. )

I agree with the "it might be better to invest in a community solar project". The problem with that is the land space required to install the panels where as using house tops might be better use of our land mass. In a crisis like say with WWII I think we all may need to pinch in. However, I think the cost savings of installing solar with rebates might be able to be cost effective for all home owners. Again, if a crisis we may need to charge more for FF energy production over time make the cost of solar more attractive.

And of course all this is tied to the fact there is really a crisis which our government does not appear to agree there is. At least today.

 

[Gwgan]

Trackers here since my roof is not appropriate and I have some space; they cost more to install but I estimate about 20% more production for the same number of panels fixed on a roof. Ten year payback, assuming rates do not rise. Net metering keeps my bills down to the minimum delivery charge except for one month late in winter when the summer-earned credits run out about half-way through. SREC's are worth a few hundred dollars a year, but for only as long as the utility offers a pricier "green power" option.
A single Powerwall size battery would be plenty to run the house overnight but not in an extended sun/grid outage and I'd have to have @jimboy69ny's battery to support the cars. I am hoping that by the time net metering is over that battery costs will have come down quite a bit.
One of two Solaredge inverters is broken right now. This will be my third warranty replacement since 2017 and each downtime has lasted several weeks. If I were to do it again I'd use a different product.
While traveling I asked an installer from a fairly large company in another state what they recommend: avoid SE even if using their inverters, and use Sense and Powerwalls to avoid having to rely on SE support services.

 

[RFernatt]

I agree with the "it might be better to invest in a community solar project". The problem with that is the land space required to install the panels where as using house tops might be better use of our land mass.

And in some states, community solar, PPAs, and anything that might appear to encroach on the utility's monopoly are illegal as we must bow in servitude to the all mighty regulated utilities.

 

[d21mike]

And in some states, community solar, PPAs, and anything that might appear to encroach on the utility's monopoly are illegal as we must bow in servitude to the all mighty regulated utilities.

For sure the federal government should put pressure (financial etc) on states that restrict solar as example. Normally what I hear is you are required to only install what your requirements are. And this is still true with the “crisis”. How can that be unless they simply do not believe there is a crisis. They should be saying install as much as your house will support and we will pay you for your excess. And they should encourage local storage and also pay more when you can share during off hours in the evening. To me if “crisis” that this is not pushed by all our leaders.
This is something that could happen very quick. I just got permit approval for my install. Waiting for scheduling. So familiar with the process.

 

[ahd13]

So in the summer you are producing $400+ worth of electricity for $193 / month?

Yes - though that underestimates as I was also a net provider of electricity. Where I live, the rates spike high in summer afternoon, so the dollars climb more quickly than the consumption. So far, our net cash flow is very positive from the solar investment.

 

[israndy]

...if we really do have a climate change crisis.

If?

Remember that when your grandkids ask why we didn't do anything to save the environment

 

[d21mike]

If?

Remember that when your grandkids ask why we didn't do anything to save the environment

IF... Is because it appears not many people believe it. How else can you explain the very little action from the people that say they believe in Climate Change but go out and buy new "large" ICE vehicles? It is extremely hard to reconcile words vs. action.

For me, (I have 5 grandkids now) they ride in our Tesla's quite often. And, they will see the Solar and Batteries going in this month. And their Parents plan to follow suit.

What will you tell your grandkids?

 

[MitchMitch]

I won’t say anything to my grandkids since I made a planet conscious decision 35 years ago of no kids of my own.

I do drone on to everyone else’s kids/grandkids (basically anyone who can’t get away ) about the virtues of solar and general energy responsibility for all.

100% + solar electric since 2007, including as much winter heating as I think I can get away with and still keep the meter going backwards. (Avatar)