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Who is driving their MS's through the cold?

Discussion in 'Midwest/Great Lakes' started by Luder94, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. Luder94

    Luder94 Member

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    ....and what performance/range hit are you guys getting? I've been driving the Model S the past week with the cold we've been getting in Chicago area. With a daily driver charge, I'm getting a reported 231 miles per charge HOWEVER with normal use, the range decreases considerably during use. I try to drive with the climate control off and heated seats on, until the windows fog up or I get too cold. In 68 miles of driving yesterday (after a full charge), I had an average of 89 miles left.

    Today, with 227 miles of range showing on the odometer after a full daily driver charge, I drove 5 miles and the parked the car showing 203 miles left.

    The car was preheated while still plugged in to the charger both mornings. Am I doing something wrong or is this expected?

    Anyone driving their cars in similar climate care to share their experiences?
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It's expected, there are a number of threads on this already. All cars lose range in cold weather, it's just that most cars don't tell you very plainly so you never know unless you keep a log book. It's hard not to know in the Model S because it tells you. Some of the factors are:

    1. Cold air is denser so there is more aerodynamic resistance.

    2. The air in the tire shrinks, so if you don't compensate for it, the tires will have more rolling resistance.

    3. Batteries have less capacity in the cold.

    4. Battery thermal management uses power (more if you don't preheat than if you do)

    5. Cabin heat uses more energy than summer a/c.

    6. Snow, slush, water, and more uneven surfaces add a lot of rolling resistance.
     
  3. scott2613

    scott2613 Member

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    My driving experience since the temp has dropped to between 10F and -5F is the following.

    Short two mile trips on snow covered roads with slight up/downhill grades can use between 450 to 550 WPM, 650 if you get on it when on dry pavement. Driving steady over longer (10 plus mile distances on the same surface streets WPM drops to 400 to 450. Mixed freeway/ surface street driving and WPM drops to 360 to 425. All these numbers are with brisk acceleration, no range mode, 19" tires with Blizzacks all around and heat set to 70F. P85+. I had the tire pressure mistakenly set at 35psi and I'm sure that didn't help.
     
  4. Luder94

    Luder94 Member

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    I completely expected to get less range compared to summer, however, I was surprised to see the how much less range I got with yesterday's driving. With the salt on the road, patches of ice here and there, and other people not driving well, I don't push it on the streets. I drive very 'grandma-like'. I've read the other threads to get a better feel for what to expect, but was looking for more direct Midwestern experiences.

    I'll check tire pressures tomorrow morning, last I checked they were set to 45psi on the winter wheel setup.
     
  5. anthony

    anthony Member

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    I've found that even in very cold temps as long as if you're going a significant distance, the items that jerry mentioned tend to average out. Short distances on the other hand can be surprisingly hungry for electricity.

    In the summer I would need about 100 miles on a charge to make my 60 mile commute with enough left over. During the winter i've been needing another 50 miles or so.

    Not in the mid west, but NH is at about the same longitude as you I think.
     
  6. Luder94

    Luder94 Member

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    Anthony, I think that may have been my issue yesterday. I took a lot of quick trips.

    I'm wondering how humidity and cold affect range; my assumption is that NE winters may get as cold as upper Midwest, but they aren't as dry. The dry air with the wind chill here makes the cold even colder.
     
  7. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    I drove 25 miles today, in several short trips, between "battery is heating" messages, the defroster/heat, etc, I used 75 miles of range to do that (started at 200 miles, down to 125 pulling into the garage). I should also state it's 17 degrees F here in Boston, that's a big factor.
     
  8. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    150 miles charge to go 60 miles? I can't even break that if I had cruise control @ 100mph in the dead of winter with heat on high.....(trust me, I've tried), lol. to get only 60 miles out of 150 miles range, you'd have to average 750Wh/mile.

    even @ 100mph in the dead of winter with heat on high that's only going to be about 530Wh/mile...sooo going by your number's you'd had to be going 130mph the whole time...
     
  9. reddy

    reddy Member

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    I would add to the list of reasons why energy utilization.

    When the battery is still cold, it has very limited regeneration when slowing down. Sometimes I get almost zero regeneration. This makes me use BRAKES. And braking totally wastes energy.
     
  10. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    I'm guessing in his first example he was talking about the projected on the energy graph screen and not the rated miles left. If that's the case, then both examples seem normal. On short trips with sub 20F ambient temperature the projected miles on the energy graph will always be very low. The actual wH/mi reading will be higher than in warmer temps but not 750.

    I drove home from bowling league last night (yeah we still do that in the Midwest) in about 10F. It's only 10 miles. No preheat, and no cabin heat. Only seat heater. My regen limitation never went above 15, and though I usually get 270wH/mi on this drive in the warmer weather, I got about 350 last night. It's just the way it is.:smile:
     
  11. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Here's a counterintuitive and little known fact: dry air is denser than humid air, everything else being equal.
     
  12. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    I drive a Volt, not a Model S, so I doubt my data point is all that useful, but In this cold my EV range has gone down to 25-26 miles, instead of the 38-40 I get during the summer.
     
  13. anthony

    anthony Member

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    Interesting factoid. Here's another, NH is 96% covered in trees, thanks NHPR.

    Luder94, I personally notice a difference if its below 50, but I don't notice as much of a difference as it gets colder. Meaning, I seem to get similar range at 20, 30, and 40 degrees.

    Your best defense is timing the charging so it stops right when you need to leave imo. It ensures that your battery is warm because its warming while its charging.
     
  14. PeterK

    PeterK Model S Owner

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    The killer is repeated short trips over the course of a cold day, with time for the battery to chill in between. It takes more power to warm the battery (and get back to normal regen) than to warm the cabin - and doing that multiple times in a day hurts. I run up surprising high average consumption on normal days of short trips to the office, to client meetings, etc.

    Thanksgiving weekend I did a 180 mile trip across mountains in 20-40 degree F temperatures with a fully loaded car, and using hypermiling techniques was able to get 302 wh/mi - much higher at the beginning, but consumption dropped dramatically once the car warmed up and we never stopped to let it cool it back down along the way.
     
  15. Luder94

    Luder94 Member

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    I don't know if it's counterintuitive....I'd say it's down right logical. With gravity in the picture, as air gets colder AND less moisture in the air, the other components of air should compact more as it gets closer to sea level. So here's a noodle-er, in a vacuum, would dry air or humidified air have more mass? ;)

    My point for colder air being dryer, was that it pulls moisture out of everything, super cooling everything. Would that make the difference in why the range is so significantly less than when our ambient air temps were in the 50's and 40's? In comparison, the air temps reported the last couple of days where in the single digits for where I live.
     
  16. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    That's the range-killer in my recent experience. Tesla needs a "keep the battery hot while parked" option and a "preheat the battery option".
     
  17. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    I second this.
     
  18. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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  19. kota23

    kota23 Member

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    The biggest difference I've noticed is below 32 degrees. On the very cold days we had here recently I was seeing my average around 350-400, once the battery was warm and full regen returned I could average 330. The frequent short trips are where I see a huge spike in energy use like others have said as well. I leave the car in range mode as I don't like the fans running full blast, too noisy.
     
  20. William13

    William13 Member

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    I suggest something different for the cold. The car should allow limited energy draws to protect the battery while not heating the battery. This would allow less energy use and more range. Heating the battery is consuming a larger portion of my charge this winter than last when doing multiple short trips and allowing one or two hours of cooling between.
     

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