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Who needs Tesla Calendar when you got this?

lx3h

Charged.hk's Director of Education
Jan 3, 2014
1,330
34
Hong Kong SAR China
I feel so inspired, so creative, and so into-the-future!

13344796_10154038387965412_4109464202986139985_n.jpg


 

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
I am equally shocked and surprised when I learned about this.

Does anyone have any idea what exactly is TD's reason in its precise wording?

If this is relating to the driveability of a vehicle, almost any feature in a vehicle that is not relating to its drivetrain can be classified as such by this reasoning! How about in-car fridge or centre console, should they be banned? I do just fine without them in the car... the car still gets me from Point A to B.

Is TD missing the point and stifling innovation!? Is there any provision in HK's traffic ordinances prohibiting this feature?

Are we going to take this as a silent majority or should we start a REAL petition to TD? (+1 vote)
 

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
PS. lx3h, love your video and you should try to get your video and this story onto Teslarati or one of those creditable auto websites such as Autoblog or Motorauthority. Hopefully this would really shame TD narrow mindedness internationally
 

nghktom

Member
Mar 11, 2015
65
0
Hong Kong
I have written to TD, cc ombudsman Waiting for their reply. it seems they are just doing somthing in retaliation due to the auto-pilot is re-instated.

Nonetheless, if drivability is a concern, all vehicles should have electric window, radio, a/c, power steering, etc removed.

Anyone want to guess what is the next function they will remove from our Tesla.

HK is going to stone age, when the rest of the world is planning on going to Mars
 

garethmchau

Member
Mar 2, 2015
133
30
Hong Kong

Great so it looks like some backtracking from TD. TD are saying that they didn't tell Tesla to remove Calendar app but askedTesla to ensure the app was legal. Tesla then took its own view and removed it out of caution. In which case maybe Tesla HK can take a more robust legal view and reinstate the Calendar app (and other apps which have not been specifically requested by TD to remove!):

"The TD then reminded Tesla that the new model must comply with the above legal requirement, otherwise it would not be able to comply with the requirements for type approval. We understand that subsequently, the manufacturer removed the function on its own initiative so as to comply with the legal requirements."
 

markwj

Moderator, Asia Pacific
Apr 10, 2011
4,620
1,255
Hong Kong
Great so it looks like some backtracking from TD. TD are saying that they didn't tell Tesla to remove Calendar app but askedTesla to ensure the app was legal. Tesla then took its own view and removed it out of caution. In which case maybe Tesla HK can take a more robust legal view and reinstate the Calendar app (and other apps which have not been specifically requested by TD to remove!):

"The TD then reminded Tesla that the new model must comply with the above legal requirement, otherwise it would not be able to comply with the requirements for type approval. We understand that subsequently, the manufacturer removed the function on its own initiative so as to comply with the legal requirements."

I read that as they told Tesla it was not legal, and they could not type approve new vehicles with that feature.
 

ZBB

Emperor
Feb 27, 2013
1,574
294
Scottsdale
Reading that press release... Are any cars in HK allowed or have HVAC or audio displays visible to the driver? A radio station number or temperature setting would appear to violate that requirement.
 

mattse

Member
Mar 15, 2016
117
29
Hong Kong
Agree with Mark.

And if you read more govt style reply, you can see their real message is "leave me alone, I ban the calendar app in their new model only!! I never tell them to remove the calendar in existing model S!!!!! Oh wait, that sounds like I gave people different instructions at different times, that could...oh right, add that paragraph about 2014, we TOLD them our requirement, they did not comply and we gave them type approval anyway, NO!! you idiot, don't put the last one down"
 
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Reactions: markwj

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,979
6,092
I read that as they told Tesla it was not legal, and they could not type approve new vehicles with that feature.
That is exactly what I read it as. What TD is taking exception with is the specific wording Tesla used: "the calendar app has no bearing on the drivability". Basically they are saying are just enforcing the law, not that they didn't tell Tesla to remove it.
 

markwj

Moderator, Asia Pacific
Apr 10, 2011
4,620
1,255
Hong Kong
That is exactly what I read it as. What TD is taking exception with is the specific wording Tesla used: "the calendar app has no bearing on the drivability". Basically they are saying are just enforcing the law, not that they didn't tell Tesla to remove it.

Here is what they said:

Hence, the decision made by Tesla this time to remove the calendar app from the new model and Tesla vehicles in use is based on legal requirements, instead of what Tesla told vehicle owners recently that "The calendar app has been removed as the Transport Department determined that the calendar app has no bearing on the drivability of the car".

So, TD is not saying they didn't say that, more that the drivability aspect was not the reason for the issue.

For Tesla to have written that down in their release notes, I'd put money on Transport Department having said that at some time. It sounds like a yardstick they use for "(a) information about the current state of the vehicle or its equipment".
 

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
markwj: thank you for sharing the link!

"Regulation 37 of the Road Traffic (Construction and Maintenance of Vehicles) Regulations (Cap 374A) prohibits any person from installing a visual display unit on a motor vehicle at any point forward of the driver's seat or where the screen is visible to the driver whilst in the driving seat, unless those visual images are permitted under the law, i.e.

(a) information about the current state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) the current closed-circuit view of any part of the vehicle or the area surrounding the vehicle;
(c) information about the current location of the vehicle; or
(d) any other information which is only for the purpose of navigating the vehicle."

Although I'm not a lawyer, I am not entirely sure if this law prohibits "visual display" and / or "visual images" that this displays!? I'd also challenge how does the law define "current state of the vehicle or its equipment" and "any other information which is only for the purpose of navigating the vehicle"!?

There seems to be 2 arguments we can table - either the calendar feature is within the law, or this is not (then we can get into a debate of this feature's rationale in a vehicle - by similar logic, should we ban all the built-in or Bluetooth phone functionalities in many of the newer vehicles!?).

I'd argue this is within the law: a calendar entry by definition states a time and an event (physical: meeting, dinner, etc.; non-physical: conference call, etc.). A physical event has a physical way point and INFORMATION for NAVIGATION by definition, whether a driver uses this or not (stating the address in the calendar) is its driver's privilege to decide and we don't need TD to decide this for us; and a non-physical event can be PURPOSEFUL to the driver to NAVIGATE and / or to STOP the vehicle and take the call (which I've done so multiple times).
 

Jason S

Model S Sig Perf (P85)
Apr 20, 2012
1,590
213
Rocklin, CA
Seems the web browser app, phone app and radio app should be removed too. They do nothing to report info about the car. Phone app could be viewed as a driver aid to keep the driver focused on the road, but the others do not.

I think I see what the law was trying to do, but they went overbroad imho.
 

Captain_Kong

Member
Jul 4, 2014
170
23
HK
is taking exception

To say the very least, and by this logic, all these displays (or functionalities) would have to be removed from all relevant vehicles (not just Tesla) - outside temperature displayed, phone, hi-fi's / music setting / CD-cover skin, etc.

I suspect TD may be also "under pressured" from ICE manufacturers and the other relevant stakeholders.

To cite a recent example: 2015 EV car of the year awarded by HK's Automobile magazine - VW e-Golf! Nor that I think Tesla is meant or destined to win this. If this is a decision / vote by the editors of the magazine, I'd respect their professional judgment and view fully. But this is by the magazine readers' "popular" vote!!! It's a shame how many people is willing to stake their reputation so obviously for commercial gain.
 

markwj

Moderator, Asia Pacific
Apr 10, 2011
4,620
1,255
Hong Kong
Although I'm not a lawyer, I am not entirely sure if this law prohibits "visual display" and / or "visual images" that this displays!? I'd also challenge how does the law define "current state of the vehicle or its equipment" and "any other information which is only for the purpose of navigating the vehicle"!?

The law typically doesn't define all that clearly (imho). It is up to the courts to interpret what the law says. Basically, court cases over time define the limits of the law.

I'd argue this is within the law: a calendar entry by definition states a time and an event (physical: meeting, dinner, etc.; non-physical: conference call, etc.). A physical event has a physical way point and INFORMATION for NAVIGATION by definition, whether a driver uses this or not (stating the address in the calendar) is its driver's privilege to decide and we don't need TD to decide this for us; and a non-physical event can be PURPOSEFUL to the driver to NAVIGATE and / or to STOP the vehicle and take the call (which I've done so multiple times).

I think you might have problem with 'any other information which is only for the purpose of navigating the vehicle' (emphasis added for the 'only'). If calendar was only used for navigation, it would be fine. I can put in calendar entries for my wedding anniversary, kids birthdays, telephone conferences, etc.
 

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