Who will be the least efficient, Cybertruck or Porsche Taycan Turbo S?

[E Dizzle]

After seeing that the Taycan Turbo S EPA numbers are 500wh/mi I got to thinking will the Cybertruck be better or worse than that. The Model X Performance with 22's comes in at 430wh/mi and the E-Tron is 460wh/mi. If the Cybertruck is going to be similar in weight to an F-150 than it will be a little heavier than the Model X. With Tesla's lead in efficiency it might actually beat the Porsche. What do you think?

 

[Jedi2155]

Copying from TesLike and using 100 kWh as a base for the Model X LR/Performance.

Model X Raven
LR 20" = 335 Wh/mile
Perf 20" = 342 Wh/mile
Perf 22" = 400 Wh/mile

None of those are the 430 Wh/mile you're quoting. The Porsche Taycan has a 93.4 kWh pack at 204 EPA miles which is 458 Wh/miles.

For the CyberTruck, I suspect it be to closer to the X performance efficiency at 400 Wh/mile and probably a 200 KWh pack in order to get 500+ mile range. Depending on the tires the put on the CyberTruck and the final aero numbers, they might beat the efficiency numbers but I don't expect them to put more than 200 kWh on the pack.

Last note, is the not the size of the wheel that impacts the range but rather the type of tire used with the associated wheel. Performance tires are more grippy and as such have more resistance/lower efficiency.

 

[drift]

Copying from TesLike and using 100 kWh as a base for the Model X LR/Performance.

Model X Raven
LR 20" = 335 Wh/mile
Perf 20" = 342 Wh/mile
Perf 22" = 400 Wh/mile

None of those are the 430 Wh/mile you're quoting. The Porsche Taycan has a 93.4 kWh pack at 204 EPA miles which is 458 Wh/miles.

For the CyberTruck, I suspect it be to closer to the X performance efficiency at 400 Wh/mile and probably a 200 KWh pack in order to get 500+ mile range. Depending on the tires the put on the CyberTruck and the final aero numbers, they might beat the efficiency numbers but I don't expect them to put more than 200 kWh on the pack.

Last note, is the not the size of the wheel that impacts the range but rather the type of tire used with the associated wheel. Performance tires are more grippy and as such have more resistance/lower efficiency.

Yes the size of the wheel does impact the range. The larger the wheel the more energy required to turn at the same rpm. You can't cheat physics.

 

[E Dizzle]

Copying from TesLike and using 100 kWh as a base for the Model X LR/Performance.

Model X Raven
LR 20" = 335 Wh/mile
Perf 20" = 342 Wh/mile
Perf 22" = 400 Wh/mile

None of those are the 430 Wh/mile you're quoting. The Porsche Taycan has a 93.4 kWh pack at 204 EPA miles which is 458 Wh/miles.

For the CyberTruck, I suspect it be to closer to the X performance efficiency at 400 Wh/mile and probably a 200 KWh pack in order to get 500+ mile range. Depending on the tires the put on the CyberTruck and the final aero numbers, they might beat the efficiency numbers but I don't expect them to put more than 200 kWh on the pack.

Last note, is the not the size of the wheel that impacts the range but rather the type of tire used with the associated wheel. Performance tires are more grippy and as such have more resistance/lower efficiency.

I was just using all the numbers from the EPA on fueleconomy.gov. I agree it will most likely be closer to the Model X Performance numbers though.

 

[animorph]

Yes the size of the wheel does impact the range. The larger the wheel the more energy required to turn at the same rpm. You can't cheat physics.

At a constant RPM, like cruising on a freeway, the wheel doesn't make a difference. You need to have an acceleration or deceleration for the wheel to make a difference.

In the absence of losses due to the tires and axle and air drag, small or large wheels will just spin at the same RPM forever. Axle drag is the same for either wheel (same RPM). Tire losses are the tire's problem, not the wheel's. Air drag is pretty much the same, with the same tire front profile, with some extra drag possible if you make a fan out of the wheel. I'll blame extra drag due to wider tires on the tires instead of the wheels.

That pretty much leaves just the tire to create energy differences. Wider, stickier, higher rolling resistance tires (sport tires) will eat more energy at a constant RPM than more efficient tires.

Yes, larger wheels can waste more energy during acceleration (and contribute more regen energy during deceleration). They are usually, but not always, heavier, with additional weight extending beyond the radius of the smaller wheel. That will hurt acceleration performance. But they could be carbon fiber wheels, lighter than the smaller wheel, and might require less energy to accelerate. Still, it'll be a small contribution to efficiency compared to the tires.

 

[Zybane]

The tire tread pattern will matter greatly. The truck was shown with off-road tires which will noticeably affect range. To have any off-road capability whatsoever, you can't put skinny hard-compound high efficiency tires on it.

 

[drift]

At a constant RPM, like cruising on a freeway, the wheel doesn't make a difference. You need to have an acceleration or deceleration for the wheel to make a difference.

In the absence of losses due to the tires and axle and air drag, small or large wheels will just spin at the same RPM forever. Axle drag is the same for either wheel (same RPM). Tire losses are the tire's problem, not the wheel's. Air drag is pretty much the same, with the same tire front profile, with some extra drag possible if you make a fan out of the wheel. I'll blame extra drag due to wider tires on the tires instead of the wheels.

That pretty much leaves just the tire to create energy differences. Wider, stickier, higher rolling resistance tires (sport tires) will eat more energy at a constant RPM than more efficient tires.

Yes, larger wheels can waste more energy during acceleration (and contribute more regen energy during deceleration). They are usually, but not always, heavier, with additional weight extending beyond the radius of the smaller wheel. That will hurt acceleration performance. But they could be carbon fiber wheels, lighter than the smaller wheel, and might require less energy to accelerate. Still, it'll be a small contribution to efficiency compared to the tires.

Please discuss center of mass in relation to center of rotation not weight.