Whole House Surge Protection

[roofsolartexas]

For those that have the Powerwall and Gateway, that's a lot of money in electronics. For two powerwalls, its a $14k job. I asked Tesla about surge protection, if the Gateway or Power Walls have it built in. That question was fielded to someone else at Tesla, when the answer was not known.

Sure you can get a meter for $7.95 a month with built in surge protection, but I don't like monthly fees, I like to own things. I'm planning to have type 2 surge external surge protectors installed on my main and sub panels, but that doesn't really satisfy me.

I was thinking of installing this before it comes into the service panel:

https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-I...C+surge+protector+whole&qid=1589943876&sr=8-1

This on the sub panel. If I'm running on back up from the sub panel, the primary protection won't do anything. This is what would be on the sub panel:

https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-AG2401C3-Surge-Protector-Black/dp/B003NVLWNC

Primarily, I need to protect the Tesla stuff from anything that would come in from the pole. I may have both type 2 on each panel, and then that type 1 before it comes in.

From what I can tell, a surge inside of the house will be captured by the type 2 on the panels. The type 1 really fights stuff from inside. I'm sure both will compliment each other. Yes, it may be extreme. But, who will pay for the damage if something gets zapped by lightning or a surge? Tesla stuff and electronics/appliances in the house too.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I installed this in the service panel to protect the property, and another one in the house sub-panel to protect the house against the Powerwall. (I wonder if anyone has taken an oscilloscope to the Powerwall to see if there any spikes when switching.)

Siemens Two 15 Amp Circuit Breaker Surge Protection-MSA1515SPD - The Home Depot

The advantage to the circuit breakers types is the response time since the conductor length to ground is shorter than other solutions. (The one I installed in the sub-panel is a very long distance to the ground rod, and probably less effective.) Fairly inexpensive and as easy as swapping circuit breakers. They are available for Siemens/Murray, and Eaton panels.

Outside of the point of use ones, I did not want to bother with surge protection at the meter since lightning isn't prevalent here. I am more concerned with surges from neighbors and the like.

 

[boaterva]

I asked my Tesla electrician (the one who has installed HPWCs for years and is Tesla certified) and he said unless you are in a heavy lightning area, the whole house units are just a money maker for the electric companies. For whatever that’s worth.

 

[bob_p]

We had some grid power issues several years ago, which caused a series of surges/spikes when the equipment failed.

At the time, we had a 2013 S with the dual 40A chargers. The secondary 40A charger failed immediately and required replacement and the primary charger failed later.

I talked with Tesla's charging team, and they claimed the onboard hardware had built-in surge protection - which clearly wasn't good enough to protect the onboard chargers.

We've since installed surge protectors in our two house breaker panels and the breaker panel for our two Tesla Wall Connectors.

As for protecting the Tesla Gateway, PowerWalls, solar microinverters - we don't have any surge protection hardware on those. If anything takes a hit during a surge, it will likely be the Tesla Gateway which is responsible for the switching.

 

[charlesj]

Interesting discussion.
I have a long time friend who has a house not that far from me, I think in the county but close to the city limit.
He has had at least two incidence of such surge attacks that crippled several appliances in the house. Had one in Seaside city caused panel replacement.
I, on the other hand never had any issues or have any appliance failure if there was one unknown to me in 35 years in this city.

My friend told me that he was told by a PG&E person that there is a very high voltage line above the lower voltage power lines in his are
that may have come down to overload the lower lines. But who knows.

Oh, yes, he attached a panel surge protector and that triggered not long ago and saved the house.
I suppose such protectors are cheap insurance, a 1 time investment.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

my cable got hit, i saw the strike hit the ground by the cable box in the backyard. lightning found the coax and took out my cable dvr, receiver and cable amp.
i run a ge circuit breaker panel protector. not that that would help cable...

 

[roofsolartexas]

The bottom line, if lightning strikes, I don’t think the warranty will cover it. Some electricians have their opinions, but I would trust the surge protector. That’s not to say they are full proof, but anyone can say anything, it doesn’t mean it’s true.

 

[zƬesla]

Wouldn’t homeowners cover the equipment? I realize it’s a hassle and all.

 

[charlesj]

Insurance might but then the deductible amount would come out of your pocket.

 

[Lloyd]

I had lightening strike a pole adjacent to my house. Fried a generator, 5K damage. I installed whole home protection after that.

 

[roofsolartexas]

Regardless if they cover it, why let things go to waste or get destroyed? I didn't build this house, but if I did build a house, it would be built to last. That's concrete block or ICF, a stronger roof structure, etc. Eventually we all pay for it, through higher rates. Why build a house that will get flooded, when you can elevate it so it doesn't get flooded? Sure, there's flood insurance, but why go through the hassle if you don't have to?

 

[Takayama Todd]

I don't recall but is a whole house surge protection come with a powerwall / solar panel system, or is that still recommended separately at the electrical panel?

 

[marnao]

That's a good question.. I already have a Siemens whole house surge protector at the main panel. Not sure if they will keep it when they do my solar/powerwall install. Would like to know if anyone else has already gone through this.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

@marnao I purchased a Siemens whole house surge protector (breaker style), and the Tesla electrician was able to add it. So to answer your question, the surge protector should be fine unless you have some 6 breaker max rule to contend with, which is not normally the case. The Tesla electrician had pulled the meter, so that was the only chance I had to add the surge protector (as that was the only way to power down my Main Lug Only service panel). After PTO, I added another Siemens whole house surge protector on my own on the house subpanel that is backed up by Powerwall.

 

[BrettS]

So this is something that I’ve been going back and forth on for years, especially since Florida is a hotspot for lightning. There seem to be so many different options for surge suppression and at least some of them seem to be little more than junk that I’ve just had a hard time trying to figure out if a while house surge suppressor is worth getting, and if so, how to identify a good unit. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I installed one for a different reason, not considering lightning. That is a LOT of voltage and amperage. I did it because I have a lot of sensitive electronic devices in the home. I noticed by looking on a storage oscilloscope that it does a pretty good job of knocking down those inductive kickback surges when things like the refrigerator, pool pump, air conditioning and similar large devices turn off. But yea, as you say, there are a lot of choices and a wide range of prices and the cheaper ones are a lot of junk.

So when you say "worth it"? What are you hoping to achieve? I hope you are not going to say you expect it to protect you from a lightning strike.

 

[bmah]

Moderator note: The preceding 16 posts in this thread were combined from three different threads on basically the same topic.

Bruce.

PS. Apologies for stepping outside my usual moderating areas.

 

[BrettS]

So when you say "worth it"? What are you hoping to achieve?

That’s a great question, and honestly I’m not even sure. I guess maybe that explains why I haven’t gotten one so far.

I mean I guess the end goal is to protect my electronics and such as much as possible, so I guess maybe what I’m asking is... would spending $200 on a whole house surge suppressor be likely to protect my computers and appliances and such from, well, a surge that would cause more than $200 in damage.

Would a consumer grade unit even be able to protect the electronics in my house from a nearby lightning strike?

 

[mswlogo]

I think it’s worth doing. Problems often come in on and external wire and you want to sink current as early as possible. The whole house ones are also a lot beefier than anything in a power strip. So they are big and sink current early. Not hard or expensive to install either

 

[Silicon Desert]

That’s a great question, and honestly I’m not even sure. I guess maybe that explains why I haven’t gotten one so far.

I mean I guess the end goal is to protect my electronics and such as much as possible, so I guess maybe what I’m asking is... would spending $200 on a whole house surge suppressor be likely to protect my computers and appliances and such from, well, a surge that would cause more than $200 in damage.

Would a consumer grade unit even be able to protect the electronics in my house from a nearby lightning strike?

Good question, not an easy answer. You'll get opinions all over the map from people. When you say protect electronics from a "nearby strike", that is too nebulous. In other words, a strike to the ground in your back yard might not damage anything, but a strike to a pole transformer far away could still kill some appliances. Let's put it this way, having one is certainly better than not having one. It can save you from damage due to the most common transient surges.
I'd spend a little more money and get a good quality unit that can handle larger surges, assuming your electrician says you can wire one into the panel.

edit: to add that it isn't going to negatively impact anything in your home UNLESS you consider that a very few of the older line communication devices could no longer work. I am talking about possibly some X10 lighting control devices (old technolgy), or some of the older "Line communication" internet devices. Insteon and other similar controllers won't be affected.