Right, it’s in the same panel as my service disconnect. So if a surge comes in through the utility it should be suppressed by the device before it gets to the TEG or the rest of my house.
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Whole House Surge Protection
- Thread starter roofsolartexas
- Start date
Right, it’s in the same panel as my service disconnect. So if a surge comes in through the utility it should be suppressed by the device before it gets to the TEG or the rest of my house.
So I just installed another one of these devices on my generation panel (on a side note, gotta love Amazon same day shipping. I ordered it late this morning and it was at my door a few hours later).
I decided to go ahead and install a second one for two reasons. First, more protection is better. If a surge comes in through the solar equipment or through the utility I should be protected now.
But also, I realized that having the surge suppressor installed by the service disconnect before the TEG means that in the event of a grid outage the device will be disconnected when the TEG disconnects my house from the grid. So adding the second device to my generation panel means that I still have an active surge suppressor even when the grid is down. I suppose maybe I could have installed a single device in my backed up loads panel, but they say that having the device installed as close to the source of the surge as possible is best, so I think the two installed where they are would be better than one in the middle.
I decided to go ahead and install a second one for two reasons. First, more protection is better. If a surge comes in through the solar equipment or through the utility I should be protected now.
But also, I realized that having the surge suppressor installed by the service disconnect before the TEG means that in the event of a grid outage the device will be disconnected when the TEG disconnects my house from the grid. So adding the second device to my generation panel means that I still have an active surge suppressor even when the grid is down. I suppose maybe I could have installed a single device in my backed up loads panel, but they say that having the device installed as close to the source of the surge as possible is best, so I think the two installed where they are would be better than one in the middle.
So it looks like we're in full blown prepper territory now. I've found so many new things to worry about since I started reading this forum.
Will this unit really protect from a Carrington/EMP event? Wouldn't that also impact the electronics in the house/inverter/Powerwall? I can see this protecting from something coming from the grid, but if everything else is fried then what was saved?
500 trillionths of a sec is 500ps or 0.5ns that does not seem plausible as electrons through most mediums are around 165ps/in and the box alone is much bigger than 3 inches. I get worried when I see grandiose claims.
I don’t although I was thinking that now that I put these devices in then I probably should add one as well. I don’t have cable TV, but I do have cable internet. I also don’t have phone service, so no need to worry about a surge coming in that way.
I didn’t take any, but if you really want one I can go back out and take the panel cover off again and take one for you. There’s really not much to it though. There are four wires coming out of the FS140. One green, one white, and two black. The green one goes to the ground bar in the panel, the white one goes to the neutral bar (although in the main panel these both go to the same bar since ground and neutral are bonded in the main panel. In all the other panels they are separate bars). Then the two black wires go to a new 240V 20A breaker. They recommend putting the breaker as close to the main as possible, so mine is right under the service disconnect in my main panel and right next to the solar breaker in my generation panel.
No worries about photos, thanks. Would likely have an electrician install if I end up getting some.
I had a spare UPS with coax and RJ-45 protection, so I hooked that up to an outlet for now so there'd be some grounding. I have an RJ-45 run from the pole-mounted panels in the backyard and figured it couldn't hurt.
I had a spare UPS with coax and RJ-45 protection, so I hooked that up to an outlet for now so there'd be some grounding. I have an RJ-45 run from the pole-mounted panels in the backyard and figured it couldn't hurt.
charlesj
Active Member
An EMP is not only through the wires but airwaves like a radio transmitter so it can fry things that this gizmo cannot protect.
But, I may be wrong, again.
charlesj
Active Member
But an EMP may take it out if it on and perhaps even when shut down it may create destructive currents on the chips and boards.
Yes, EMP is through space, inducing voltage and current wherever it hits a conductor. Once it is in the conductor, the power surge is a problem for anything electrical. I've had electric ranges fry.
That said, having surge suppressors, plural, distributed around the house will help keep the peak voltage and currents lower, and hopefully at safe levels. If you get hit, well if your house gets hit, with lightning, that's millions of volts, (10^10 watts+/-) and the induced voltages/currents are likely to fry all sorts of things. But... the more suppression that you have the more the induced voltage will be clipped at nondestructive levels. Or put differently, adding suppression means that your electronics will survive a closer hit.
I've been next to light bulbs, that were off, that exploded from the induced current of a nearby lightning strike. Don't think that one MOV package alone will save everything. If you are in a bad area, you would also want to have lightning rods, underground wiring, and surge suppression. There are pages and pages of data and advice out there to help.
I've also been close to trees that were hit by lightning with no damage to anything beyond the tree. It's all in the details.
I believe central Florida is host to the lightning research institute for a reason...
Stay safe.
All the best,
BG
That said, having surge suppressors, plural, distributed around the house will help keep the peak voltage and currents lower, and hopefully at safe levels. If you get hit, well if your house gets hit, with lightning, that's millions of volts, (10^10 watts+/-) and the induced voltages/currents are likely to fry all sorts of things. But... the more suppression that you have the more the induced voltage will be clipped at nondestructive levels. Or put differently, adding suppression means that your electronics will survive a closer hit.
I've been next to light bulbs, that were off, that exploded from the induced current of a nearby lightning strike. Don't think that one MOV package alone will save everything. If you are in a bad area, you would also want to have lightning rods, underground wiring, and surge suppression. There are pages and pages of data and advice out there to help.
I've also been close to trees that were hit by lightning with no damage to anything beyond the tree. It's all in the details.
I believe central Florida is host to the lightning research institute for a reason...
Stay safe.
All the best,
BG
charlesj
Active Member
I am not sure that I would say one is useless. I would rather have a house with one than none, but I would prefer to have one on the entry, and other surge suppressors in front of sensitive electronics.
I think of an EMP like a really fast tidal wave- it is going to come surging by every point in the house, and you can better limit the damage with having more places, and stronger tie downs, the better. You can have really big tidal waves and little tiny ones. Ditto EMPs. If you don't live in an area with thunderstorms, or at the bottom of a steep valley, it isn't much of an issue. Florida, the Great Plains, different story.
If the lightning hits your house, there is going to be a big through space EMP component. We have so much in the way of electronics that runs on a volt or three, and they aren't very tolerant of surges of a couple of volts, much less tens or hundreds of volts, and every little cable acts like an antenna for EMP. If lightning hits your power line a mile a way, not so much of an EMP, but the mile away strike will still put a big electrical pulse down your electrical wires. Fortunately, modern power supplies are better able to withstand surges on the supply side. Operative word being better.
Surge suppressors are eaten away with each pulse that they absorb, so they will wear out. If you are in an active area, you may want to be proactively replacing them before their little idiot lights come on to indicate that they have no capacity left. I.e. the rated capacity in Joules is for day 1.
All the best,
BG
I think of an EMP like a really fast tidal wave- it is going to come surging by every point in the house, and you can better limit the damage with having more places, and stronger tie downs, the better. You can have really big tidal waves and little tiny ones. Ditto EMPs. If you don't live in an area with thunderstorms, or at the bottom of a steep valley, it isn't much of an issue. Florida, the Great Plains, different story.
If the lightning hits your house, there is going to be a big through space EMP component. We have so much in the way of electronics that runs on a volt or three, and they aren't very tolerant of surges of a couple of volts, much less tens or hundreds of volts, and every little cable acts like an antenna for EMP. If lightning hits your power line a mile a way, not so much of an EMP, but the mile away strike will still put a big electrical pulse down your electrical wires. Fortunately, modern power supplies are better able to withstand surges on the supply side. Operative word being better.
Surge suppressors are eaten away with each pulse that they absorb, so they will wear out. If you are in an active area, you may want to be proactively replacing them before their little idiot lights come on to indicate that they have no capacity left. I.e. the rated capacity in Joules is for day 1.
All the best,
BG
charlesj
Active Member
I am thinking of EMP from an attack going through the atmosphere and causing damage to stuff no matter if you have a whole house protection.
On the other hand, if a lightning induced EMP, if that is possible, at a distance causing the spike through the powerline, then yes, the whole house protection should work. Is a lightning can cause both in powerline and through the atmosphere, not sure then.
I have an FS140 in my main panel which contains all of my backed up loads. I wonder if a better place for it would be in my energy gateway internal panel since that's closer to my service? Only issue is I don't have the accessory for the internal breakers and I have no idea if Tesla would sell me one.
I don’t believe that can be added after the fact. I believe that it would need to connect to lugs inside the gateway that are already being used for external panels.
After doing a bit of research it looked like the general consensus was a gas discharge type surge suppressor was the best option for coax. I purchased one of these from amazon:
Lightning Surge Protector F Female to F Female DC-3 GHz 75 ohm with 90 V Gas Tube Surge Arrester (Lightning Arrester F Female to Female) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0772TXBCQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_U95xFbZ9TDXYM
I also looked at the Siemens coax surge suppressor product, but it didn’t state whether it was gas discharge or another type. Additionally the Siemens was only rated for 5KA and this one was rated for 10KA.
And I used it to replace the grounding block at my cable company’s demarc point. Interestingly I discovered that while the grounding block had a grounding wire connected to it no one had actually bothered to screw it in, so the wire was stuck in the hole, but not clamped down at all.
As I said above, I don’t have CATV service, so I didn’t have to worry about picture quality, but I do use cable for my internet connection. I ran a couple of speed tests before and after I installed the surge suppressor and found no change in connection speed.
Your cable modem should be able to report what your SNR is. I'd be curious to see how much it changes (if at all) - if your SNR is great to start and good after then that's probably fine and you likely wouldn't see any service issues. However if later your provider changes something and the signal degrades further you may find your service affected.
charlesj
Active Member
Interesting. I read most of the paper but didn't see if whole house protection will help beyond the grounding of incoming DC current but shouldn't an ordinary whole house protector also stop any over current and voltage? What is not clear is if that EMP may also be induced beyond the main panel as a device is set off to cause this EMP. Laptops and many other devices may be fried from that EMP.
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