Why are solar companies going out of business

[Merrill]

It is very similar to talking to someone who is not educated about BEV's, people get ideas stuck in their brain that they think are factual and make decisions based on this info. Do your homework then make an educated decision that fits your situation.

 

[nwdiver]

It is very similar to talking to someone who is not educated about BEV's, people get ideas stuck in their brain that they think are factual and make decisions based on this info. Do your homework then make an educated decision that fits your situation.

This is why I hate companies that install for ~$5/w. They're perpetuating the myth that solar is expensive.

 

[brkaus]

I had a quote to install solar. They were claiming 6 year payback based on crazy assumptions about future cost of electricity.

I questioned their ROI calculations and they told me they were busy and would get back. They never did.

I think lots of bad apples out there and It's starting to catch up.

I have no problem with a 10-15 year payback for clean energy, but I'm not going to do biz with a company that uses questionable info to make sales.

 

[timpierc]

It is very similar to talking to someone who is not educated about BEV's, people get ideas stuck in their brain that they think are factual and make decisions based on this info. Do your homework then make an educated decision that fits your situation.

Totally agree with this statement. I was at a family reunion recently, and due to logistics I had to drive my Leaf there. Getting there involved a stop at a fast charger in Golden Colorado, and another two hour Level 2 charge in Idaho Springs to get through Eisenhower Tunnel. Everyone was asking how far the car could go. I told them it depends, but I know I can easily drive the 40-50 miles I usually do each day to and from work, as well as errands. That meets 99% of my needs for a second car. The kept wooing and hawing about how they couldn't see using a car like that. And I'm just like "think about what you use a car for the majority of the time! This car could easily do what you do on a daily basis."

The fun part was the 99 mile journey back going all downhill after Eisenhower on a single charge. So I guess to answer their question... 99 miles

 

[Merrill]

The first thing anyone usually says when you are talking to them about an electric car is you cannot go anywhere in one of those cars. Most people always talk about doing a road trip and you ask them the last time they did a road trip and they say 10 years ago. Will be glad when the battery technology gets to the 500 mile point then let's see what their excuse is.

 

[JCLeonard]

I think any conversation around solar needs to include a discussion around reducing consumption. I have had many conversations with people that sound like "well, PV won't pay for ALL my electricity so why do it?". There seems to be a stigma that solar only makes sense if it can cover the entire bill, perhaps that's just the circle of people I know. I try to combat that logic by suggesting a reduction in their usage followed by a (likely smaller) system that WILL cover their usage. Done correctly, this can reduce the upfront outlay and sticker shock of a solar system. Here in MN, the rates are fairly reasonable (but going up, shocker) and my payoff for a professionally installed system is 9.5 years. To reduce that payoff time we decided to make usage adjustments in the short term and continue to evaluate system costs as they trend downward.

 

[Chopr147]

I think any conversation around solar needs to include a discussion around reducing consumption.

I have tried this. 3 kids between 16 and 23 with a tunnel between their ears. Apparently my nagging gets thru but then immediately exits. My wife is not much better.
So, consumption is mostly the same but now I don't mind because I pay about $12 a month for electricity. (some delivery charge nonsense)

Do your homework then make an educated decision that fits your situation.

Have to disagree with posts stating solar is cheap. I don't have the details but my friends quote was for a lease and it would take 18 years to re-coup his costs. So NO he didn't bother

 

[nwdiver]

Have to disagree with posts stating solar is cheap. I don't have the details but my friends quote was for a lease and it would take 18 years to re-coup his costs. So NO he didn't bother

It's cheap if you're not getting gouged. A 8kW system costs ~$8000 in materials and takes ~20 man-hours to install... how some people think that adds up to $40k is beyond me

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Have to disagree with posts stating solar is cheap. I don't have the details but my friend....

Solar is cheap, that's just a fact. The hardware and labor don't cost a a ton, it's all the other nonsense that can get expensive. I'm working on a solution and will certainly be pushing it on this site when live.

I suspect Tesla will be able to slowly gain traction with a sales-less model and take over again with full service products that the customer can own or lease.

 

[McRat]

Slightly off target, but...
We are installing solar as we speak due to predatory pricing by our utility (SCE). The notified us that we were put into another plan to save us money since new tariffs came into play.

Or so they said...

By dropping our energy use in 2017, we reduced our July kWh consumption a whopping 18% over last year.
But, with the new tariff 'to save us money', our bill rose 6% over last year anyways.

So 7/2016 = .22 per kWh total
Then 7/2017 = .28 per kWh total

Or 27% increase in kWh cost for reducing our usage 18%??

Now based on my calcs:

The good news is that if we install 1/3 of our power needs as solar, it reduces our tariff plan to a final rate to .17 per kWh.
So this will cause a significant drop per kWh of solar.

Somebody posted 'industrial' prices by SCE in California are .14 per kWh average. I call BS on that. That might be part of the bill, but it was never .14 per kWh total in the last year per SCE rate sheets.

So 1/3 of our kWh will just vanish, then what's left will only be .17 per kWh, or effectively, .44 of our bill will be left. Hence why a smaller system can yield a very high ROI sometimes.

In our case, the net AC panel output after all losses, produces .50 per kWh effectively. Now panels make a lot of financial sense.

This is why TOU / Tiered / Peak Demand plans can be targeted with smaller investments with big rewards. After that 1/3 kWh production, future panels will only produce .17 per kWh, or 3 times as expensive when it comes to capital costs.

 

[dgpcolorado]

It's a highly competitive environment especially on the manufacturing level, specifically modules. Inverter companies are doing ok, large companies like SMA, Solaredge and Fronius aren't going anywhere.

It's mostly the national installers that are struggling. Local installers are doing much better. Even in Nevada the local installers were able to hold on when Solar City and Sunrun left the state after the policies changed.

This is my take on the issue as well. The local installer who did my solar has been in business for twenty years. There is another installer in town who has been in business almost as long. Both are doing fine. Solar installation seems to be a good fit for a small local or regional business, like plumbers or electricians.

 

[Skotty]

Low demand due to ROI not being sufficient is typical short sighted human behavior. Pretty common, unfortunately. The real reason to install solar is because it's what we need to do as a civilization if we want to preserve the environment. Has nothing to do with cost, other than cost potentially being prohibitively expensive for the less well to do.

Power companies should be building solar and other renewable energy power plants much faster than they are. To limit cost to the less fortunate, they could do it on a system where more well to do folks who actually care about the future can pay more to help pay the capital costs of replacing coal with solar or wind. I'd happily pay much more than I currently do for this (maybe up to 3x regular cost; maybe more depending on how truly benevolent power company is being). But power companies aren't doing that either. As a result, my only option is to install my own rooftop solar, and I intend (have budgeted) to do that early next year. In classic human short sighted behavior, even this will be a fight because my HOA will say it "doesn't look good", no matter the future of humanity or anything. I may end up having to wait and install solar shingles without the federal tax credit, which will be WAY more expensive, but I'll do it if I have to. Because I have the money and I'm not a selfish ignorant prick.

This was a pretty snippy post on my part. I've just got HOA anxiety over whether or not they will approve my rooftop solar.

 

[kort677]

This was a pretty snippy post on my part.

agreed, in fact you call those who don't share your opinions as being "short sighted" it comes across as being arrogant. as for your HOA they might not be able to have much of a say in such an installation, check your state's laws regarding installation of equipment like this.

 

[nwdiver]

agreed, in fact you call those who don't share your opinions as being "short sighted" it comes across as being arrogant. as for your HOA they might not be able to have much of a say in such an installation, check your state's laws regarding installation of equipment like this.

Old Chinese proverb; 'You cannot have a difference of opinion if you start with a difference of fact'

 

[Racerx22b]

I had a solar system installed in my home in South FL

11.69kWh (41 panels)
Solar water heater
Variable speed pool pump

Total cost was around $45k if I recall correctly. Probably paid a little too much but the companies that gave us the other quotes just didn't give me a feel good vibe. When it was all said and done the company we went with turned out to be jerks as well but their work seems solid. They just have a serious comprehension and customer service issue.

Anyhoo, we are producing about 1.5MWh each month with this system. My guesstimate is about $180 worth of electricity. To help with our usage we replaced our crappy AC units provided by the builder and installed two 20 SEER Lennox units with variable speed fans and updated our duct work to allow the units to work more efficiently.

Just some numbers for anyone out there considering a system. This covers about 70% of our monthly energy needs.

3500sq/ft house. Pool. 2 AC units that run 10-11 months of the year. 2 Teslas.

 

[kort677]

Old Chinese proverb; 'You cannot have a difference of opinion if you start with a difference of fact'

the problem is some people have a different baseline for what is a fact and what is a contrivance of convenience.

 

[Skotty]

agreed, in fact you call those who don't share your opinions as being "short sighted" it comes across as being arrogant. as for your HOA they might not be able to have much of a say in such an installation, check your state's laws regarding installation of equipment like this.

There is no solar access rights law in Missouri. Missouri Senator Jason Holsman has been proposing one every year (this year it was SB109), but it's being disregarded by Republicans because Republicans are in favor of regulations limiting people's free market choices and telling people what they can and can't do...oh wait...how does that go again? There is a Missouri Statute that says solar power is a property right, but it's vagueness leaves a lot of room to dance around.

We haven't actually submitted a proposal yet, as we have to finish getting the design work done first as well as finish a glare study we are voluntarily engaging in to ensure panels won't be installed in spots where it would cause a major glare into a neighbors house. But we have heard feedback from the HOA on solar; some of them are receptive, some not so much.

 

[kort677]

I had a solar system installed in my home in South FL

11.69kWh (41 panels)
Solar water heater
Variable speed pool pump

Total cost was around $45k if I recall correctly. Probably paid a little too much but the companies that gave us the other quotes just didn't give me a feel good vibe. When it was all said and done the company we went with turned out to be jerks as well but their work seems solid. They just have a serious comprehension and customer service issue.

Anyhoo, we are producing about 1.5MWh each month with this system. My guesstimate is about $180 worth of electricity. To help with our usage we replaced our crappy AC units provided by the builder and installed two 20 SEER Lennox units with variable speed fans and updated our duct work to allow the units to work more efficiently.

is the cost of the replacement of functioning A/C units and ducts included in the 45k?
regardless, you are saving a bit over $2k a year in energy costs, my fuzzy math says that you have a 20 year break even point.

do you think the value of the home has been enhanced by the solar array?

maybe you're ok with the whole scenario, but it makes little sense to many people to pour money into the home with low to no payout.

 

[nwdiver]

the problem is some people have a different baseline for what is a fact and what is a contrivance of convenience.

Falsifiabily makes something a fact. If the long-term cost of inaction is greater than the short-term cost of action it's not an opinion to call lack of action 'short-sighted'. With a reputable installer Solar PV is ~$3/w. If you can't find someone that will install your array at that price PM me... I'll hook you up with someone. At $3/w the payback period is ~12 years.

 

[kort677]

Falsifiabily makes something a fact. If the long-term cost of inaction is greater than the short-term cost of action it's not an opinion to call lack of action 'short-sighted'. With a reputable installer Solar PV is ~$3/w. If you can't find someone that will install your array at that price PM me... I'll hook you up with someone. At $3/w the payback period is ~12 years.

I am in zip 32082, have at it