Why are solar companies going out of business

[TheTalkingMule]

I'm in Philadelphia and we have more than enough "solar potential" to facilitate a 5 year payback period if purchased correctly.

As mentioned above, pretty much all the US is just fine for solar, so long as you don't pay too much.

 

[kort677]

I'm in Philadelphia and we have more than enough "solar potential" to facilitate a 5 year payback period if purchased correctly.

As mentioned above, pretty much all the US is just fine for solar, so long as you don't pay too much.

oic! that's why I see so many homes there with solar arrays installed {not}

 

[Racerx22b]

oic! that's why I see so many homes there with solar arrays installed {not}

So because not the majority of people are doing it your logic is to assume when a majority of people are doing something it must be right.

So I strongly suggest you rack up about $5700 of revolving credit card debt and stick to a diet of fast food and sugar water so you develop diabetes. You know, cause most people are doing that and it must be right.

 

[kort677]

So because not the majority of people are doing it your logic is to assume when a majority of people are doing something it must be right.

So I strongly suggest you rack up about $5700 of revolving credit card debt and stick to a diet of fast food and sugar water so you develop diabetes. You know, cause most people are doing that and it must be right.

what a foolish and snarky comment!
the point that I was making is that if it was so economical and financially advantageous to install solar as that poster implied it was then one would think that there are many people who would want to take advantage of such savings.

 

[Racerx22b]

what a foolish and snarky comment!
the point that I was making is that if it was so economical and financially advantageous to install solar as that poster implied it was then one would think that there are many people who would want to take advantage of such savings.

A foolish and snarky comment gets a foolish and snarky comment in response.... Don't dish what you don't want to receive.

Perhaps the reason solar is not so prevalent on roof tops is just because it's not feasible for the vast majority of people. The initial buy in is high and the return takes time. I'm also guessing middle America isn't buying up apartments or office space in Manhattan to rent out. I would imagine real estate in NYC is a good investment but when a tiny apartment goes for a million plus you're probably not getting people knocking down the door to invest in it. This is just one of hundreds of great investment opportunities out there that not everyone is doing but still remains a good investment.

As I stated in my initial post. Solar isn't for everyone. it's really best for those with good exposure and plenty of disposable income looking for a safe place to park it. If you've diversified and maxed out your other opportunities it is a viable option with a guaranteed return with very minimal risk.

I don't see how you could argue that. But seeing how your responses are trending I am sure you will.

 

[brucet999]

Lots of solar in Germany... guess they missed that memo...

Thanks for that great insolation graphic. The scale is in kWh/m2/yr. To convert to practical units for home solar, what is the conversion factor you would use?
Most modules measure about 1.65m2 and the best panels run about 22% efficiency = .363 x 89% net after temperature loss at PTC conditions and inverter losses = 0.323 as a factor to calculate ideal per panel production at average 68ºF ambient temp. Am I anywhere close?

 

[brucet999]

A foolish and snarky comment gets a foolish and snarky comment in response.... Don't dish what you don't want to receive.

Perhaps the reason solar is not so prevalent on roof tops is just because it's not feasible for the vast majority of people. The initial buy in is high and the return takes time. I'm also guessing middle America isn't buying up apartments or office space in Manhattan to rent out. I would imagine real estate in NYC is a good investment but when a tiny apartment goes for a million plus you're probably not getting people knocking down the door to invest in it. This is just one of hundreds of great investment opportunities out there that not everyone is doing but still remains a good investment.

As I stated in my initial post. Solar isn't for everyone. it's really best for those with good exposure and plenty of disposable income looking for a safe place to park it. If you've diversified and maxed out your other opportunities it is a viable option with a guaranteed return with very minimal risk.

I don't see how you could argue that. But seeing how your responses are trending I am sure you will.

Good point. Solar is a good investment for those who have managed to amass enough wealth to have some discretionary money available after meeting their basic needs; in other words, almost anyone posting here.

 

[nwdiver]

Thanks for that great insolation graphic. The scale is in kWh/m2/yr.

1sq meter will give you roughly 2000kWh per kW per year. So in SE NM a 8kW array will generate ~16000kWh/yr.

Another useful rule of thumb is full hours of sun per day average. Purple Germany is ~2.5; Red NM is ~6.

 

[nwdiver]

Solar isn't for everyone. it's really best for those with good exposure and plenty of disposable income looking for a safe place to park it. If you've diversified and maxed out your other opportunities it is a viable option with a guaranteed return with very minimal risk.

I'm working very hard to change that. I agree solar will never be for 'everyone'; But IMO it should be for anyone that owns a house with a relatively unshaded S-ish roof and uses electricity. The median cost of a house in the US is ~$200k. Providing ~90% of the power for the average home is typically going to be ~10% the value of the home. I want the analogy to be solar is to buying from the grid what renting is to buying a house.

People don't wait until they have 'disposable' income to stop renting and buy a home... they shouldn't wait until they have 'disposable' income to stop paying the utility for something they can easily do themselves.

The idea that mostly people with 'disposable' income are buying solar is probably the primary reason it's so expensive. At $3/w it becomes a wise investment instead of a novelty item for the wealthy.

the point that I was making is that if it was so economical and financially advantageous to install solar as that poster implied it was then one would think that there are many people who would want to take advantage of such savings.

I got a quote for a 8kW system 10 years ago... it was $60k. That kind of thing leaves a mark. The cost of solar has fallen >50% since then... the perception of its cost is still catching up.

 

[SageBrush]

So because not the majority of people are doing it your logic is to assume when a majority of people are doing something it must be right.

So I strongly suggest you rack up about $5700 of revolving credit card debt and stick to a diet of fast food and sugar water so you develop diabetes. You know, cause most people are doing that and it must be right.

I could have written that. Are you my twin ?

 

[emchen]

Agreed. Economics just aren't worth it unless you're in California. Too much regulatory uncertainty (hello Arizona and Nevada net metering changes), and well as the capital costs. Only reason Solar City and Vinvint were "doing well" was because they kept suckering people into 20 year leases on the equipment, but even then that gravy train ended, hence Solar City having to get acquired by Tesla because customers kept reneging on the leases, and their debt backed securities based off those leases started to become worthless.

Please elaborate on what you been by customers, "reneging on the leases".

 

[Ulmo]

Please elaborate on what you been by customers, "reneging on the leases".

I'd like to know as well; when I researched $SCTY, this was minimal.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

As I stated in my initial post. Solar isn't for everyone. it's really best for those with good exposure and plenty of disposable income looking for a safe place to park it. If you've diversified and maxed out your other opportunities it is a viable option with a guaranteed return with very minimal risk.

I don't see how you could argue that. But seeing how your responses are trending I am sure you will.

Solar is just now taking off in Pennsylvania for a myriad of reasons.

First and foremost we had a shale industry puppet as our governor up until a couple years ago, and we still have a shale-centric GOP majority in our state Legislature. Net metering is in place, but who knows what Harrisburg will do when the shale folks tell them to crack down on residential solar. That kind of murkiness is more than enough to hold up decisions on something new and relatively expensive.

That being said, we've now crossed the tipping point. There's a new governor in place and even the central PA GOP reps can't deny the job creation, so they're backing solar as well. Residential installs are just now gaining early momentum in Philadelphia, the suburbs will be taking off next summer, and statewide adoption should increase at a reliable rate from here on out.

I had a tough time understanding the hold up as well, but it's all making sense in retrospect. Get these markets to $2.55/W and it'll take off. The demand is most certainly there and has been all along, you just need to legislate the most of the more unscrupulous risk out of the equation. The masses will eventually educate themselves and the market will take care of the rest.

 

[Merrill]

I think you will see an increase in renewables all over the country, the cost of solar and wind are coming down. Of course if you have cheap electricity it makes it a tougher choice. I'm in California and I'm also all electric so solar makes more sense and our kWh costs are on the high side. Then you have to decide if you do not mind coal fired power plants and look at more of the environmental aspects. Unfortunately lots of people are misinformed about solar as well as BEV's, I'm hoping the Model 3 will make some people do their reasearch and decide that this is the way to go.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Please elaborate on what you been by customers, "reneging on the leases".

That was a FUD narrative for shorts trying to needle the SCTY business model. I don't know if it's true of other large PPA players, but it isn't for SCTY(Tesla Energy).