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Why are turnkey Solar PV systems so ridiculously overpriced?
- Thread starter nwdiver
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- Energy Environment Policy
A chain of gas stations in Indiana had taken out its 2-head frozen soda machines and replaced them with 4-head machines. I was the lucky recipient of a very low cost machine. I also have a bar-gun soda fountain that has juice and soda. These machines use a refrigerated "cold plate" that the syrup and carbonated water flow through to help keep the carbonation in the drink, and circulates water along with the syrup lines to keep the entire length of the lines to the bar gun cold. Yes, it's a bit of a luxury - YOLO or something like that.
So to neroden's point - are there things I could do to shed consumption after, say, 2 days of suboptimal sun? Perhaps. The deficits that I studied weren't exactly predictable -- they were just a matter of 5 days straight of rainy or snowy weather. So yes, I could pay more attention to the weather and decide to shut some things down, but that takes a significant effort. I suppose I could invest in moving a bunch of circuits around and using computer controls to detect that, but at some point paying my meter charge looks pretty reasonable when you consider that I don't have to install another 20 kW of panels, I don't have to maintain 100 kWh of batteries, I don't have to watch the weather and tune my consumption based on expected daily output (much less worry about what happens when I'm on a trip).
OK, seems fair. So you could go off-grid with a little care; you're running a pretty profligate house in electrical-load terms, and you have a lot of demand which you could turn off pretty easily. You just decided the meter charge was worth it, which is an understandable decision If they raise the meter charge again, you might reconsider...
Anyway, I guess I was actually looking at your situation because it's much more viable for you to go off-grid than it is for me. I live in the snowbelt. The heating is actually essential and can't be shut down (it needs to be maintained to keep the water pipes from freezing). The periods when solar panels don't produce are snowstorms, which also happen to have some of the highest heating demand. If I stick with my current fuel heating, I could probably go off the grid (my daily electrical usage right now is about 32 kwh/day including the car), but my priority is to stop using fossil fuels. With electric heating, which would add another 40 kwh/day and more during snowstorms, I genuinely can't at this point.
Luckily my utility is charging *very reasonable* monthly fees, <$20/month, and I've read in public service commission filings that they don't intend to raise it much (they have been talking about potentially instituting peak demand fees or something sensible like that). I really do wonder how yours came up with $45/month; maybe they have a small number of customers over a large area and a lot of long lines? My utility is big and the state is really fairly densely populated, even the rural areas, so there are a lot of customers per mile of electrical service line and a lot of customers to spread fixed overhead over.
Anyway, I guess I was actually looking at your situation because it's much more viable for you to go off-grid than it is for me. I live in the snowbelt. The heating is actually essential and can't be shut down (it needs to be maintained to keep the water pipes from freezing). The periods when solar panels don't produce are snowstorms, which also happen to have some of the highest heating demand. If I stick with my current fuel heating, I could probably go off the grid (my daily electrical usage right now is about 32 kwh/day including the car), but my priority is to stop using fossil fuels. With electric heating, which would add another 40 kwh/day and more during snowstorms, I genuinely can't at this point.
Luckily my utility is charging *very reasonable* monthly fees, <$20/month, and I've read in public service commission filings that they don't intend to raise it much (they have been talking about potentially instituting peak demand fees or something sensible like that). I really do wonder how yours came up with $45/month; maybe they have a small number of customers over a large area and a lot of long lines? My utility is big and the state is really fairly densely populated, even the rural areas, so there are a lot of customers per mile of electrical service line and a lot of customers to spread fixed overhead over.
Got it. It's so different where I am. Upstate NY is rural, but we were electrified by NYPA before the REA. The NYPA policy involved pressuring the existing utilities to expand, so the result was the same utilities which served the cities also serving their "hinterlands". This is very different from the "donut and center" arrangement you have, the result of the REA bypassing the existing utilities.
I don't think $45 is bad at all. I pay about that in a reasonably dense suburban area with underground wires. $15 base and then peak charge which I control well and keep at $25 on average. So $40 but I control the peak very very well compared to average.
So when you consider that $45 is also the peak charge - it isn't bad.
We need a fund to pay for Flasher's heat pump. I get that your region is mild but propane seems crazy with hydro power.
Off grid gets tough for sure with heat pumps. Nearly impossible really without NG generator even if you were willing to live cold sometimes
I generate 700 kwh a month in the summer but 300 in December. Doesn't even power the cars let alone the hot water (solar but needs backup in Dec). The heat pumps use another 500 in Dec. I could build a summer time net zero on my roof but impossible in December. I would need 6 times the panels which I don't have room for. And we all know how well residential wind works.
So when you consider that $45 is also the peak charge - it isn't bad.
We need a fund to pay for Flasher's heat pump. I get that your region is mild but propane seems crazy with hydro power.
Off grid gets tough for sure with heat pumps. Nearly impossible really without NG generator even if you were willing to live cold sometimes
I generate 700 kwh a month in the summer but 300 in December. Doesn't even power the cars let alone the hot water (solar but needs backup in Dec). The heat pumps use another 500 in Dec. I could build a summer time net zero on my roof but impossible in December. I would need 6 times the panels which I don't have room for. And we all know how well residential wind works.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
What is your average monthly usage? I am typically around 1,350 kWh until we get to the dead of winter. I have a heat pump and it works great until we get near freezing and it has to kick in resistance heating to keep us in the 60s.
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TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Trying to find an appropriate thread for this....
Apparently Comcast is now marketing PPA's with Sunrun? I think the death of the zero-down model has been considerably overstated. Some of these mature organizations with massive amounts of cash sitting around will see benefit in partnerships with major PPA providers.
Apparently Comcast is now marketing PPA's with Sunrun? I think the death of the zero-down model has been considerably overstated. Some of these mature organizations with massive amounts of cash sitting around will see benefit in partnerships with major PPA providers.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Although I am not a fan of Comcast, I am a very satisfied Sunrun customer.
Expanding the range of PV solar availability and options will be a good thing
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