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Unless you refuse to drive an ICE car ever again that kind of rules that out as an option for us. For people like us who road trip as a hobby the Supercharger network is a necessity. Sure, it may be slower than it should due to recent nerfs to the system but have you compared similar trips in similar EVs on the options that are available w/o Supercharging being an option? The absolute fastest speeds available to them are still fraction than are now-slower speeds which kind of puts it into perspective. I also don't see that any of the 3rd party options currently out there are viable to travel across the country. They're sparse, spread out, slow and unreliable.

I think you need to get some more current research. Considering the Taycan just broke the coast-coast EV record using only EA chargers, Also, sparse and spread out, no, check the map. Slow? No, depending on the vehicle, they offer as much as a Tesla V3 charger (and up to 350kW if the vehicle can handle). Unreliable? This is the area where Tesla still has a lead. This and ease of starting charge and payment. Tesla definitely still wins here. But it's more than possible.

 
I guess with the banning of ICE car sales slowly coming up in some country, legacy makers will really have to start pushing EVs otherwise yes they will fall behind
If you will have paid attention the marketplace, you'd see that this is already started. For instance, for the price of a Plaid, you could have a Merc EQS 580:


Slower, sure. But far, far, far more luxurious. And 4.1 sec to 60 is hardly "slow". It's just not stupid fast like the Tesla.
 
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I used my Dieselgate "windfall" in 2016 to vote with my wallet and support Tesla's ambitions. I bought the most expensive car I ever have (by a factor of two) and felt like I was investing in a company that had the best chance of disrupting the entrenched interests. In retrospect, that seems to have played out.

4.5 years and 120,000 miles later, I'm still a mostly happy customer with my Model S. The car has been remarkably reliable. My interactions with service, while declining, have been satisfactory. On the whole, I'm not convinced the dealership model is any better, though the problems are different. In general, I do find the company as a whole to be less trustworthy than I regarded them in 2016, and I don't think their customers' best interest is their driving principle any more (if it ever was).

The supercharger network is a game changer. I can drive almost anywhere these days without thinking at all about trip planning. I just get in and go.

If I was buying today vs. 4 years ago, it would not be a slam-dunk decision to buy a Tesla. While I was very excited about the self-driving ambitions in 2016, I've come to realize they're 99% empty promises and parlor tricks. Paying for supercharging wouldn't bother me, but paying $10,000 so my car can change lanes with autosteer engaged like it does now is insulting.

Visually, the car has aged very well and I'm still in love with it every time I look at it. I've ridden the crushing depreciation curve to the very bottom and plan to ride out the car's "golden years" of no car payment and infinite mile battery/DU warranty for another 3-4 years. I imagine the EV landscape will be far different then and have no particular allegiance to Tesla - will make an impartial decision based on what's available at that point.
 
Paying for supercharging wouldn't bother me, but paying $10,000 so my car can change lanes with autosteer engaged like it does now is insulting.
that's the part that bothers me with today's offerings if I had to go from my AP1 car to a new model s. they bundle features that an AP1 car can do now but they require you to pay $10k for features I already could do that don't have a dependency on FSD like autopark and the lane changes holding the signal.
 
that's the part that bothers me with today's offerings if I had to go from my AP1 car to a new model s. they bundle features that an AP1 car can do now but they require you to pay $10k for features I already could do that don't have a dependency on FSD like autopark and the lane changes holding the signal.
We need EAP back, it was a great stop gap when it was offered
 
I mean have you used the newer brands infotainment displays, they are getting pretty good now. Even if you dont like the way they look you can plugin your phone and use Carplay or AndroidAuto for even more integrations than Tesla has.

The FL S is a great value, but now at that price range that its at there are other EVs that offer things that the MS can't offer and vice versa.

Yes I have and they really are terrible still, looks like systems that are at least 10 years old if we compare it to the mobile space with tablets and whatnot. Carplay and Android Auto are just bandaids that does not fix the problem and only gives some more functions. First of all you need it wireless to be useful at all, why would I want to have cables to plug in my phone in 2020. Secondly the disconnect between the car system and Carplay/Android Auto is just too big, the sandboxed approach is clunky at best. And if we start looking at the new Model S’s capabilities with the new computer it just blows the competition out of the water.

As we move into level 3 and up self driving the infotainment system will just become more important.
 
Yes I have and they really are terrible still, looks like systems that are at least 10 years old if we compare it to the mobile space with tablets and whatnot. Carplay and Android Auto are just bandaids that does not fix the problem and only gives some more functions. First of all you need it wireless to be useful at all, why would I want to have cables to plug in my phone in 2020. Secondly the disconnect between the car system and Carplay/Android Auto is just too big, the sandboxed approach is clunky at best. And if we start looking at the new Model S’s capabilities with the new computer it just blows the competition out of the water.

As we move into level 3 and up self driving the infotainment system will just become more important.
I would disagree, for one phone projection is becoming wireless now. Phone projection also limits the need to pay $13/month to get in car data, I mean why should I have to pay for an extra data subscription when my phone has one?

I guess you haven't used systems from the big 3 German manufacturers, they run very smoothly and have good features. Plus no one really cares to be gaming from your car, I have a console/PC for that lol.
 
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Wow, I know forums can tend to be negative by nature, but a little surprised how many people said they would leave. Maybe I should sell my stock lol. TBH I posted this question because of their stock, and when people will start to turn their backs on Tesla. At some point there will be a catch up, and the “fan boys” will start to get frustrated. I owned the first iPhone and Apple realized very early on, that the fan base wasn’t enough, they needed an ecosystem to lock you in. Granted they have amazing customer service among other things going for them.

Another poster said the FSD tech is far ahead.. In what way? My wife had an X7 and that thing, along with other cars, drive themselves completely under say 40mph. No need to touch the wheel at all. The new Escalade, I believe it does navigation over the camera map, it looks wild.

The catch up seems pretty much here. The supercharging network is KEY for sure, but if they get rid of the free charging, that a huge miss IMO. If I have to pay for charging then I probably wouldnt want a Tesla 5 years from now. no 360 camera, they miss on some simple items at a price that’s almost unforgivable.

All that said, my MS has been an absolute doll and I haven’t had any service issues. I just think, like someone said, cars for me are a which one is best now thing.
 
Need a 3 row option. Might jump ship when vw buzz is real. Was sticking with Tesla because of FSD. That still might be the case when VW minivan comes around. Would be nice if VW and others upgraded cars long afterwards like Tesla does.
 
Wow, I know forums can tend to be negative by nature, but a little surprised how many people said they would leave. Maybe I should sell my stock lol. TBH I posted this question because of their stock, and when people will start to turn their backs on Tesla. At some point there will be a catch up, and the “fan boys” will start to get frustrated. I owned the first iPhone and Apple realized very early on, that the fan base wasn’t enough, they needed an ecosystem to lock you in. Granted they have amazing customer service among other things going for them.

Another poster said the FSD tech is far ahead.. In what way? My wife had an X7 and that thing, along with other cars, drive themselves completely under say 40mph. No need to touch the wheel at all. The new Escalade, I believe it does navigation over the camera map, it looks wild.

The catch up seems pretty much here. The supercharging network is KEY for sure, but if they get rid of the free charging, that a huge miss IMO. If I have to pay for charging then I probably wouldnt want a Tesla 5 years from now. no 360 camera, they miss on some simple items at a price that’s almost unforgivable.

All that said, my MS has been an absolute doll and I haven’t had any service issues. I just think, like someone said, cars for me are a which one is best now thing.
Agree with all that you have said, I think what people fail to see is that a Tesla isn't as glorious as one would think. The brand as a whole has their own fair share of problems that fanboys like to gloss over. Tesla isn't a bad car brand to buy, people just gotta understand that since they are not a legacy maker they do things a lot differently for better or for worse.
 
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I would disagree, for one phone projection is becoming wireless now. Phone projection also limits the need to pay $13/month to get in car data, I mean why should I have to pay for an extra data subscription when my phone has one?

I guess you haven't used systems from the big 3 German manufacturers, they run very smoothly and have good features. Plus no one really cares to be gaming from your car, I have a console/PC for that lol.

Yes, they are becoming wireless now which makes them at least usable. Why would I care about a $13/month charge enough to take a clunky solution instead? The car itself will cost me a hundred times that.

And yes I have used their latest systems, they do not run smooth at all you can even see the EQS review units stutter a lot. And why wouldn’t I care about gaming in the car? I like tech so it is cool and there are times I sit in my car waiting for people or while charging and that is fun to use. Also when level 3 starts becoming legal during the next 1-2 years things like that will be very important during longer drives.
 
Yes, they are becoming wireless now which makes them at least usable. Why would I care about a $13/month charge enough to take a clunky solution instead? The car itself will cost me a hundred times that.

And yes I have used their latest systems, they do not run smooth at all you can even see the EQS review units stutter a lot. And why wouldn’t I care about gaming in the car? I like tech so it is cool and there are times I sit in my car waiting for people or while charging and that is fun to use. Also when level 3 starts becoming legal during the next 1-2 years things like that will be very important during longer drives.
You are missing the point.. say if I want live traffic in my Tesla I have to pay $13/month when other cars I can use my phone for maps and use google maps, waze, apple maps for navigation but with Tesla you are stuck with their navigation. How about streaming, they recently caught up but still missing apple music and soundcloud. I think for streaming you also need the premium connectivity plan so again you are paying twice for one service.

The EQS was just released today they obviously will refine the system before sale. I own a 2021 LR+ with MCU 2 and can definitely tell you the German systems are right up there. They don't lag at all and have really good UIs.

Gaming in the car is a gimmick whichever way you put it, no one goes into their car to go play games. I highly doubt any sort of level 3 driving will allow you to play games while the car is driving, plus Tesla can't even get the FSD out to their customers and how many years have they been selling the FSD driving package?
 
You are missing the point.. say if I want live traffic in my Tesla I have to pay $13/month when other cars I can use my phone for maps and use google maps, waze, apple maps for navigation but with Tesla you are stuck with their navigation. How about streaming, they recently caught up but still missing apple music and soundcloud. I think for streaming you also need the premium connectivity plan so again you are paying twice for one service.
Yeah, I don’t care about the $13/month, i’ll trade that against the $400 Audi wanted for rear seat airbags in the E-tron. All in all the MS is cheaper than a lot of the competition even with the $13/month. It is also in a completely different league when we are talking a 100k car that is replaced every 18-36 months.
The EQS was just released today they obviously will refine the system before sale. I own a 2021 LR+ with MCU 2 and can definitely tell you the German systems are right up there. They don't lag at all and have really good UIs.

The German systems behave like dumb phones while the Tesla one is a smartphone. Loads of submenus and it takes ages to do anything, we are all used to smartphones and tablets so that is the way forward. And yes they do have stuttering, especially when dragging the map around. But the EQS isn’t targeted towards techy people, it is targeted towards non techy people in my parents age (60s) so I understand why they haven’t bothered.

Gaming in the car is a gimmick whichever way you put it, no one goes into their car to go play games. I highly doubt any sort of level 3 driving will allow you to play games while the car is driving, plus Tesla can't even get the FSD out to their customers and how many years have they been selling the FSD driving package?
I don’t think so, I can see myself playing games in it while at a supercharger or something. And yes level 3 will allow you to play games or watch Netflix in the car, it is part of the UNECE regulations already that the screen can go into parked mode while level 3 is enabled. The question is when will it all be finalised and implemented across the EU, I am guessing within 1-2 years since that is when Mercedes and the German manufacturers are coming out with it.
 
Need a 3 row option. Might jump ship when vw buzz is real. Was sticking with Tesla because of FSD. That still might be the case when VW minivan comes around. Would be nice if VW and others upgraded cars long afterwards like Tesla does.
I’ll second that. Model 3 is my first Tesla and very recent (last month) and I’m already thinking about replacing the family minivan. If they’d get rid of the silly (but cool to show off) gull wing doors so I could put a roof rack on for hauling bikes, kayaks, a cargo carrier, etc the Model X would be in my consideration set. As of now I’m watching the Rivian R1S.
 
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Yeah, I don’t care about the $13/month, i’ll trade that against the $400 Audi wanted for rear seat airbags in the E-tron. All in all the MS is cheaper than a lot of the competition even with the $13/month. It is also in a completely different league when we are talking a 100k car that is replaced every 18-36 months.


The German systems behave like dumb phones while the Tesla one is a smartphone. Loads of submenus and it takes ages to do anything, we are all used to smartphones and tablets so that is the way forward. And yes they do have stuttering, especially when dragging the map around. But the EQS isn’t targeted towards techy people, it is targeted towards non techy people in my parents age (60s) so I understand why they haven’t bothered.


I don’t think so, I can see myself playing games in it while at a supercharger or something. And yes level 3 will allow you to play games or watch Netflix in the car, it is part of the UNECE regulations already that the screen can go into parked mode while level 3 is enabled. The question is when will it all be finalised and implemented across the EU, I am guessing within 1-2 years since that is when Mercedes and the German manufacturers are coming out with it.

How does the rear airbag have anything do with an on-going subscription for a service that you already pay for? How is the MS in a completely different league? I can't remember picking up a car well over 100K that has squeaks and rattle everywhere, panel gaps wide enough to put a quarter of my finger through, parts already failing etc. this is what I mean when fanboys gloss over the brands flaws. Its a great car on paper but nothing more than its numbers.

The last two points you had are all subjective anyways, so no point arguing that.
 
Wow, I know forums can tend to be negative by nature, but a little surprised how many people said they would leave.
Tesla has really made some pretty significant customer-hostile moves lately.

The S/X refresh is turning into a big debacle. Solar roof customers getting the hard shaft and being left in the lurch with 50+% price increases on in-progress projects. Quietly capping battery capacity and gimping supercharging speeds of older cars. Reaching into customers' cars post-purchase and removing software features so new owners have to buy them back. Utter communications incompetence.

It's increasingly hard to defend. As I said in my first post, I have far less trust in the company as a whole than I did 4 years ago. I don't see that changing any time soon.
 
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How does the rear airbag have anything do with an on-going subscription for a service that you already pay for? How is the MS in a completely different league? I can't remember picking up a car well over 100K that has squeaks and rattle everywhere, panel gaps wide enough to put a quarter of my finger through, parts already failing etc. this is what I mean when fanboys gloss over the brands flaws. Its a great car on paper but nothing more than its numbers.

The last two points you had are all subjective anyways, so no point arguing that.

I meant why would I care about $13 per month when the cost of a 100k car is a lot higher.
 
Hey Everyone

I feel like every day I am seeing more and more compelling electric vehicles Being debuted. Which makes me ask, how much longer will I stay with Tesla. Then that brings me to, why am I with Tesla? My answer is mostly because of it being a fast, beautiful, electric vehicle. I hate everything about gas engines but the sound of accelerating. Do you think you will stick around with the new Audis continue to be produced? Lower priced options in the 3 range even. I personally don’t think that Tesla is so far ahead in the tech dept at all. It feels like the people who think that never came from a luxury car, even years ago.

Example... newest Audi.View attachment 653972

Funny, before I even opened the thread, I was thinking of the Q4 unveiling. I'm very much ready for an actually well built premium EV. I'll be keeping an eye on the Q4 e-tron and there's a high chance I'll happily trade my Model S for one.

Yes, the lack of a surpercharger network can be a concern but it depends a lot on our individual needs. In my case, I've had my Model S for almost a year and a half now and never actually needed to supercharge.

I absolutely love the Q4 interior. Can't wait to upgrade.