Why bother to pre-order the new Model 3 (or whatever it is called now)

[cfttester]

1) When gas goes back up to $5, you'll be in the queue!

Yeah, yeah. And when the gas will hit $25 - we all die
I hope you know that there are other EVs on the market. Some of them even longer then Model S

 

[cfttester]

I would say the supercharger network is growing faster and is more reliable. The CHAdeMO network on paper is finally just able to connect some coastal routes, but the stations only have one or two chargers. So even with modest demand that network won't be able to handle it.

You don't have to travel across the country on your EV just because Elon did that. You can buy an airplane ticket or rent a ICE for this once-in-a-lifetime trip. So, "connected" fast charging network could be a false goal.
On top of that a maximum power output of a CHAdeMO charger is just twice lower then maximum output of Supercharger. IRL it's even more complicated.

 

[MrBoylan]

Supercharger is an option you are using rarely (compare a number of Teslas on the road and number of superchargers)
"OTA updates" - OK. But will it have a camera mirror (like Bolt)? No? What a shame
"Longer range" - All upcoming Gen 2 EVs will have a longer range
"A True EV only company and culture" - I'm buying a car not a car company. And I suspect, you would not mention this if you'd know bit more about a culture in Tesla

Supercharger network, so far, has been growing fast enough to accommodate the growing user base. "Camera mirror" is nifty, but not game-changing. And we haven't seen a Model 3 yet so we can't answer that yet. OTA updates are much more important than gimmicky features.

And don't kid yourself. When you buy a car, you are absolutely buying the company, whether you're supporting a progressive forward-thinking EV-only company like Tesla with excellent post-sale service or supporting a compliance car manufacturer with "independent" dealerships who make their real money on post-sale service action, that too is your individual choice.

 

[MrBoylan]

The model 3 will have access to the supercharger network. While it's been debated as nauseum on this forum, it has been said by Elon already. So where are you getting this idea?

Access to and "free" access to are different things. Has Elon, or anyone at Tesla gone on record to say that the base Model 3 at $35K will have free supercharger access? I haven't seen that. And personally I doubt it will be free. Like Auto Pilot, Supercharger access has value and they can (and should) charge for it as an option. This will allow them to stay profitable (important for company longevity) and to invest that money right back into infrastructure like new stores, service centers and supercharger stations.

A $1000 to $2500 premium for lifetime access to the supercharger network would be perfectly acceptable (to me, at least). It will also keep the people who don't *need* access to the superchargers (those who only use their Tesla for local driving and commuting) away from the superchargers, which will hopefully keep them from getting too crowded.

 

[MrBoylan]

$7500 tax incentive may end soon

Hard to predict exactly when we'll get to the EV tax rebate phaseout period for Tesla, but even the most generous estimates of volume and delivery ramp would push the 200,000th US delivery out until at least Q2, 2018. And if that happens, then any Tesla sold in Q2 and Q3 of 2018 would still get the full $7500 rebate, then it would cut to $3750 for Q4 '18 and Q1 '19, and down to $1750 for Q2 and Q3 of '19. If Tesla times deliveries right (and gets the Model 3 out, roughly on time), the Model 3 should be eligible for the full rebate for at least the first 6 months of deliveries and a partial rebate for the following 12 months.

 

[liuping]

I disagree that CHAdeMO chargers are located only in metro areas, but let's forget about it for a second.

It's not just about traveling across the whole country (not many people actually do that), just traveling around California is hard without Superchargers.

Try driving from LA to San Jose on the 5 via CHAdeMO chargers. It's easy with Supercharger, impossible with CHAdeMO.

Going up the 101 will work via CHAdeMO, but will add nearly 4 hours to a 5.25 hour drive (101 is slower, CHAdeMO is much slower)

And that does not even take into account the problem that many locations (especially along highways) having only 1 or 2 CHAdeMO plugs, with no alternatives anywhere near by and a very high chance of being down.

Oh and they usually are quite very expensive per charge often over $20 per charge), vs. free for the superchargers.

 

[MrBoylan]

True, but the only substantial difference between the Superchargers network and let's say CHAdeMO network is that you can travel across the country as was pointer above. How often car owner travel across the US? Beyond that, CHAdeMO, for example, is an open standard. Guess, which network will grow faster.

The point is not that you WILL travel long distance often, but that you CAN do it whenever you need to. It's that freedom to travel the country (or the world) that makes long distance EVs with superchargers appealing.

For me, as a one car household, long distance travel is essential, even though I only need to do it 12-14 times a year.

 

[taigebu]

I disagree that CHAdeMO chargers are located only in metro areas, but let's forget about it for a second.
Let's keep in mind that CHAdeMO is an open standard. There are a number of equipment providers as well as number of independent charging networks. So, the locations for the stations are mostly driven by the demand. Will more demand arise from longer range EVs - more stations will pop-up.
Location and number of Tesla Superchargers, is driven by one company. So if Tesla will decide not to build a station at a particular popular location it will not build one and no one will.

Given that the Teslas support the CHAdeMO standard with an accessory whether or not Tesla decides to build a station at a particular location is not a big deal if there is a CHAdeMO station nearby that same location...

 

[MrBoylan]

Stop feeding the troll. Just stop.

But it's fun!

 

[Az_Rael]

For the record I am a big fan of the Bolt, I am very glad Chevy is developing a 200 mile EV. Choices are a good thing. And as much as some folks poo-poo the dealership network, it is admittedly pretty convenient to find a Chevy dealer to service my Volt, and I don't worry that I might move somewhere later that doesn't have a Chevy location.

However, the supercharger network IS a huge plus in Tesla's favor for long distance travel. Because they own the network, they keep it very well maintained are building it out in a logical big-picture way. Using the patchwork existing public charging network can be an exercise in frustration. I have used it some with my Volt, and most of the time I leave glad I have a gas engine to back me up (ICE'd spots, chargers out of order, being unplugged.....)

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Why?

Because
1) I want the opportunity to get the tax credit, either to make it cheaper or to pay the same but get a better spec.
2) I'm willing to put some money down to say that "I want a long-distance electric car and I will buy one if it's not much more than $35k. I want that rather than a boxy $37.5k+tax-$7.5k boxy hatchback long-range electric car."

 

[MiamiNole]

But you will be emotionally invested into this car while so many alternatives are coming to the market.

This statement makes no sense. Why would I reserve a Tesla if I wasn't 100% sure I wanted it? Emotional investment has little to do with it. If you know for sure that you want to buy a Model 3, then reserve it and wait on the delivery. Besides, you can always get a refund...

 

[shrspeedblade]

cfttester is one of the worst trolls I've ever seen so much so it's hilarious- and I'm not even a Tesla owner saying this!
Thanks for the laughs, I needed it.

 

[MrBoylan]

The difference between the lowest to the highest Model X is $90k.

Actually, it's a little over $70K (from around $81K to $152K):
Buyers Guide to Tesla Model X Options and Pricing

I would say the difference between the top and bottom of a 3 will be $50-$60k, making the top $85+k

Oft-compared BMW 3 series ranges from about $32K to $65K (ish) and this is spanning a range of different body types and a slew of different engine and performance options. I personally think a fully loaded Model 3 will ring up at about $70K (or max $75K), a bit higher than a base Model S. The car will be smaller so no 3rd row option of any kind is likely, and option prices should be relatively proportional to base price so options will probably be slightly lower in cost than the comparable options for Model S and Model X.

Elon has already stated the base Model 3 will have a range of 200 miles. Therefore the base model will probably be in line with what the 70D is now. Which gets you a range of just over 200 (230) and a 0-60 of 6.0.

Battery will likely be 60 or slightly smaller due to lower weight and potentially better aerodynamics. Not sure about 0-60 times. It could be much quicker than an S with a comparable or even smaller battery due to lower weight and better drag coefficient.

and now performance vs they will probably have a Dual and non-Dual motor configuration. Of course the base would be a non-P and non-D. They also throttle functionality, for example they will throttle the 0-60 for a base and increase for the PD models. They current do this on the various models of the X.

Agree that base Model 3 will be single-motor RWD (like the S) and that P and D options will be available. The 70 does have a slower 0-60 time than the 85 or 90, but I'm not sure if that is limited solely due to the lower pack output or truly "throttled back" in order to prevent it from competing with the bigger brother. I guess it could be a little of both.

 

[MrBoylan]

cfttester is one of the worst trolls I've ever seen so much so it's hilarious- and I'm not even a Tesla owner saying this!
Thanks for the laughs, I needed it.

Oh, there are far worse trolls. At least cfttester avoids personal insults and occasionally even uses emoticons (albeit in a slightly patronizing way).

 

[Tam]

...Plus, other EVs has there own fast charging options...

The problem with non-Tesla protocol charging is, beside what others have pointed out, they are not very good at taking care of you.

When a charger is down, you might have to call several numbers who would pass the buck from one to another while your car runs out of charge.

On the other hand, Tesla takes care of you. You can plan where to go with its built-in navigation map and know exactly where to charge.

If its chargers are down, you call 1 single number and they either remotely reboot the charger or if it's hopeless, they'll send a tow truck to take you to your next charger for free.

Someone recalled that as the electricity went out in the area that Supercharger station was located because of storm damage to the utility company (not the Supercharger station itself.)

 

[cfttester]

Oh, there are far worse trolls. At least cfttester avoids personal insults and occasionally even uses emoticons (albeit in a slightly patronizing way).

Guys, could you start a separate topic for this particular discussion thread?

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

I bet the CFTTESTER character is just Mary Barra trying to get us to buy a Bolt....

 

[cfttester]

The problem with non-Tesla protocol charging is, beside what others have pointed out, they are not very good at taking care of you.

When a charger is down, you might have to call several numbers who would pass the buck from one to another while your car runs out of charge.

On the other hand, Tesla takes care of you. You can plan where to go with its built-in navigation map and know exactly where to charge.

If its chargers are down, you call 1 single number and they either remotely reboot the charger or if it's hopeless, they'll send a tow truck to take you to your next charger for free.

Someone recalled that as the electricity went out in the area that Supercharger station was located because of storm damage to the utility company (not the Supercharger station itself.)

Let me reiterate. Supercharger is a proprietary technology paid by the marketing department of Tesla Motors. CHAdeMO is one of the open standards supported by a number of charger manufacturers as well as EV manufacturers. Usually the service at CHAdeMO station is paid. Now, what is your opinion, which model is more sustainable? In 2 years?

 

[cfttester]

This statement makes no sense. Why would I reserve a Tesla if I wasn't 100% sure I wanted it? Emotional investment has little to do with it. If you know for sure that you want to buy a Model 3, then reserve it and wait on the delivery. Besides, you can always get a refund...

"Why would I reserve a Tesla if I wasn't 100% sure I wanted it" - you forgot to add "today". Thing will change in 2 years.
"Emotional investment" - because you already "bought" the car (told your friends, etc)
"Besides, you can always get a refund" - again things may change in 2 years . Albeit this will be regrettable.