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Why can't smartphones communicate directly with your Tesla?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Haxster, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Phones have WiFi and Bluetooth. Teslas have WiFi and Bluetooth.

    Why should smartphones need to go thru the internet (which isn't always available) just to allow keyless entry and driving?

    Wouldn't it be convenient if your phone or watch virtually replaced the key fob? One less thing to carry.
     
  2. Manzacoty

    Manzacoty Member

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    Good question and I think it's been brought up before. I think the issue was related to the security and would allow someone to hack into the car.
     
  3. RRM998

    RRM998 Member

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    Aside from the hacking concerns, there's no easy way for two "devices" on a network to know the address of the other unless one or both is published in a Domain Naming Service server. Some home routers will do this locally, some don't. Certainly when your phone and car are on cellular, there's no way to directly find the car's address.

    I'm sure that both the App and the car make a secure connection to the Tesla servers which then handles the transaction.
     
  4. Maximapolak

    Maximapolak Member

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    They don't want to make it easy to hack the tesla.
     
  5. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Maybe I'm being naive, but in setting up my Amazon Echo, my phone sees the SSID of the Echo, lets me connect to it, then allows me to proceed to set it up.

    It would seem reasonable that the Tesla could do something similar. And use my name & password to provide security for set-up. The phone app could then take care of secure syncing when it was in range. Not unlike connecting you a secured home or office network; when you're in range...you're connected.
     
  6. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    As far as hacking issues, an extra level of protection could be that the car would need to verify access thru a car-to-mothership communication.
     
  7. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    I think the OP was suggesting either an ad hoc wifi connection directly between the car and the phone or a bluetooth connection directly between the car and the phone. I don't think he was contemplating a connection over the internet via the cellular network. That is basically what we have already with Tesla servers acting as the middle man.

    Permitting a direct connection between a phone and the car without Tesla's servers in the middle to verify the traffic is legitimate would be a big security concern which is why they likely wouldn't do it.
     
  8. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    This is just flat out wrong, disregard it.
     
    • Like x 3
  9. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    #9 SabrToothSqrl, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    I just want the option to Touch ID to start... on the car's DASH :)
     
    • Like x 1
  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Or even just a retina scan camera in the rear view mirror.

    Or use the speech recognition already in the car: MY VOICE IS MY PASSPORT
     
  11. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Not only is it wrong, but there are lots of ways for two unknown devices on a local network to discover each other without using DNS, ad-hoc wifi or Bluetooth pairing.

    Simple Service Discovery Protocol - Wikipedia
    Service Location Protocol - Wikipedia
    Universal Plug and Play - Wikipedia
    Bonjour (software) - Wikipedia

    Just to name a few.

    Now let me cut you off right there -- I am NOT suggesting any of these would be a secure or even good solution for having a phone talk directly to the car.
     
  12. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    i'm sorry, Dave. I can't do that
     
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  13. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    The reason why wifi is unsuitable for what you suggest,
    - Wifi requires a complex pairing process.
    - Wifi requires your phone to connect to the car's wifi network (if the car had one), and your phone won't autoswitch. Even if Tesla implemented this, it would probably be worse UX than what we already have (going via the internet).
    - Wifi also requires a more complex stack at the broadcaster's (the car).

    The reason bluetooth is unsuitable,
    - It requires pairing - which brings it back to "experience would not be much better than what you have now".
    - It is inherently insecure to things such as DDOS or even brute force hacks.

    That leaves bluetooth LE.
    - This is actually suitable, very similar to how apple watch unlocks your mac when you are in proximity. But ..
    .. proximity is a hit or miss, plus minus 10 meter accuracy
    .. apple watch relies on touch, unlocked, and accelerometer to detect your movement to unlock your mac.
    - So you could use bluetooth LE, but it still won't be automatic since proximity detection is a hit or miss. Connectivity will also be a hit or miss.

    So long story short, using bluetooth or bluetooth LE, you could eliminate the need for internet connectivity. But you'd still need to connect to the car, start the app, and request to unlock .. so it can serve as a back up to no internet access. But not much more than that. I suspect Tesla may do this one day, but the return on effort here is very low IMO.

    Now what Tesla really ought to do, is to stick a solar panel on top, and eliminate some load on the 12v battery. That would be a real improvement.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Spy photo of the Model 3 with the solar option (an alternative fact):

    model-3-Solar.jpg
     
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  15. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #15 Tam, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    The future might not be too far away. You might have to buy a Model X to get what you want:

    From TeslaTap.com

    "Key FOB Model X

    • 2.4 GHz Bluetooth LTE in USA. Other countries add 315 MHz (Canada) or 433.94 MHz (Europe/Asia) to meet local transmission regulations"
     
  16. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    There's only one reason why the app can't communicate directly with the car. Control. Tesla has it, and they don't want anyone else to.
    The more dependant you are on Tesla's infrastructure the better it is for them. You only think it's your car. Tesla really believes it's theirs.
     
  17. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    I'd be happy if only the basic functionality of the official Tesla app on my phone could talk directly with the car; and not have to go thru the internet.
     
  18. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Mine can, but it's certainly not thanks to Tesla... In fact I can do more that way then through the app. Tesla COULD have done this, but they didn't.
     
  19. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    I just wish somebody would start a thread about this. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    So, tell us more...
     

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