Why ChargePoint is Terrible

[Eno Deb]

3. I use the ChargePoint application first to find any free & available J1772 chargers in my area. I like seeing the "Available" vs. "In-Use" and being able to be notified when a charger becomes available if someone hasn't "sniped" it already.
4. I then use PlugShare to find any other compatible chargers in the area that ChargePoint doesn't show (i.e. Tesla Destination chargers, other network chargers, etc.).

Tip: The Chargepoint app actually does show Tesla Destination chargers (as well as a number of other charging networks). You may have to enable them in the Filter settings (there you can also remove chargers that cannot be used with a Model 3, i.e. Chademo and CCS). In the iPhone version you can get to the setting by tapping the 3 dots in the upper right corner.

 

[AWDtsla]

Geez. Talk about Prius and Leaf hate.

As someone who DOES enjoy cars, I do like both my Prius (bought new in Jan 06, still have it) and my Leaf (leased a '13, bought a used '13 to replace leased Leaf). A Leaf has been my primary car since end of July 2013.

FWIW, I previously had an 02 Nissan Maxima and an 04 350Z. The latter I had for almost 8 years.

On the bolded part, you are correct, esp. about the Leaf. FWIW, the current best still Nissan in the US is the Rogue. It passed the Altima awhile ago for that title.

To each his own...

Would you/anyone have bought these cars if they weren't hybrid or electric? Yeah, exactly! No compelling reason to buy them other than that. I don't hate these cars, but trying to to claim that they are better than they are is just activist crap. The point of Tesla is that you should not need to do this, nor can you. You can't get to 100% of the fleet by having punishment cars.

Final point on this thread. Compliance EVSE's for compliance cars. Chargepoint is probably the Microsoft of EVSE's now. No one gets fired for buying Microsoft, even if it's expensive and does the job poorly.

Unsubscribed.

 

[cwerdna]

Would you/anyone have bought these cars if they weren't hybrid or electric? Yeah, exactly! No compelling reason to buy them other than that. I don't hate these cars, but trying to to claim that they are better than they are is just activist crap. The point of Tesla is that you should not need to do this, nor can you. You can't get to 100% of the fleet by having punishment cars.

The true compliance cars are the ones that sell only in CA or in a tiny # of states or have virtually 0 availability outside CA/CARB states (e.g. Focus Electric, Ioniq Electric (So Cal only car), Fiat 500e, etc.)

Tesla took big risks targeting the segments and price points they did, and investors still seem happy (?) to keep them going despite racking up almost $6 billion in net losses, having 0 years w/a net profit and racking up over $10 billion in debt.

Final point on this thread. Compliance EVSE's for compliance cars. Chargepoint is probably the Microsoft of EVSE's now. No one gets fired for buying Microsoft, even if it's expensive and does the job poorly.

Ok. So, what other vendors in the US provide J1772 EVSEs w/this type of access control, activation via phone or RFID card, billing, monitoring via app and web site all in a turnkey solution? And, they've had such a solution available since ~2011?

 

[Skipdd]

The true compliance cars are the ones that sell only in CA or in a tiny # of states or have virtually 0 availability outside CA/CARB states (e.g. Focus Electric, Ioniq Electric (So Cal only car), Fiat 500e, etc.)

Tesla took big risks targeting the segments and price points they did, and investors still seem happy (?) to keep them going despite racking up almost $6 billion in net losses, having 0 years w/a net profit and racking up over $10 billion in debt.

Ok. So, what other vendors in the US provide J1772 EVSEs w/this type of access control, activation via phone or RFID card, billing, monitoring via app and web site all in a turnkey solution? And, they've had such a solution available since ~2011?

Can't answer your question, but I agree with OP and @AWDtsla. I have never been able to successfully use a Chargepoint location. They were either broken, or I couldnt reach someone on their support site to validate my credit card. I registered on their site but never received a card. I had no issues with eVgo. Have used their locations many times. And I agree that Plugshare is far better. It also shows when sites are in use.

 

[cwerdna]

Can't answer your question, but I agree with OP and @AWDtsla. I have never been able to successfully use a Chargepoint location. They were either broken, or I couldnt reach someone on their support site to validate my credit card. I registered on their site but never received a card.
... And I agree that Plugshare is far better. It also shows when sites are in use.

FWIW, I've been using Chargepoint successfully almost every day at my work for the last several years. The usage was lower at one point when we had EV valets (they had to use 6 Chargepoint J1772 handles outside a building), not enough parking or at one point, not enough stations (I'd charge at L1 instead). Those valets could handle maybe charging 21 to 30 EVs/PHEVs max (if charged to full) a day during their working hours and given their J1772 handle constraints.

On some days, when I have time, I start sessions for waiting EVs/PHEVs in a certain area. I'd maybe do that for as many 10 vehicles in a given day. Out of the over 80 handles I mentioned, I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 at my work that might be dodgy (based on internal reports on Slack). If there are problems, we can file a ticket w/our facilities people.

In areas outside work, I've never had a case where I used a Chargepoint station that was busted and a nearby one didn't work. I can think of using Chargepoint stations at a county office (numerous times), 2 different Targets (numerous times) and possibly an apartment complex or two. The prob w/Chargepoint's business model is that you can report it broken, but it's up to the owner to effect repairs. If station owner doesn't care, it'll stay broken.

As for credit card, I've never had to reach their support site for that. I added my CC on day 1 via their web site and put on the minimum amount (other than $0) of $25, at the time.

I agree that if one is looking for public L2, CHAdeMO or SAE Combo charging in the US, Plugshare should be the FIRST place one goes to.

 

[SageBrush]

On one side of this debate we have a ChargePoint hater, a detractor with a negative experience, and a fellow who wants a service for free. Everybody else who has chimed in is on the other side.

Please let this thread die.

 

[Pkmmte]

I've used chargepoint once. I spent 5 minutes over the phone just to start my charging session. I have no interest in signing up for things I won't use regularly .I just wanted a single charge.

In the end, I spent less time shopping at the store than I did on the phone with chargepoint just trying to charge. It charged so slow that it was barely enough to cover my driving in the parking lot

 

[cwerdna]

I've used chargepoint once. I spent 5 minutes over the phone just to start my charging session. I have no interest in signing up for things I won't use regularly .I just wanted a single charge.

In the end, I spent less time shopping at the store than I did on the phone with chargepoint just trying to charge. It charged so slow that it was barely enough to cover my driving in the parking lot

That was your mistake. Don't waste time on the phone w/them. Get a card from them first and sign up online ahead of time.

All the level 2 portions of the Chargepoint EVSEs I've used have a 30 amp max output per handle although there are some CT-4000 w/power sharing (ChargePoint Introduces CT4000-Series Charger with Unique Power Sharing Option) where if there are 2 connected vehicles, each only gets 15 amps (not sure if 1 goes back to 30 if a connected vehicle is done). 30 amps * 208 volts (common commercial power) = 6,240 watts = 6.24 kW. The Teslas I've seen attached to Chargepoint (I've started sessions for them) tend to be able to draw ~6.2 kW at my work (~208 volt supply voltage).

We used to have 3 stations that had power sharing until facilities ran a 2nd 40 amp feed to each of them.

I have accounts w/Chargepoint, Blink, Semaconnect and Evgo. The first two I've had the longest. I've so far only used Chargepoint (what we have at work), which is almost every weekday for over 5 years. My Aug 2018 driver summary email says I added 560 kWh. Most of that went in other cars, not mine, since I semi-often start sessions for others at my work.

 

[RayK]

Have to disagree with the thread's title. I signed up with ChargePoint a little over three years ago when I received a loaner BMW i3 REx. Since I was going to have it several days and didn't have a 240V outlet handy in my garage, I wanted a way to charge it at a respectable rate. Looking around the area near work, I found a couple of public ChargePoint stations about a block away. I did have to call them when charging the car since I didn't have the tag yet, just the app. Charged the car there near work, at the American Red Cross on First Street and at ChargePoint HQ in Campbell. Easy to do; no problems at all. Yes some stations are not listed in their app. Generally they are ones provided only to employees that work at the companies where those chargers are installed.

I now fall under that description. Fast-forward to July 2018 when I picked up my Model 3. The new building at work has 30 J1772 ChargePoint handles and two DC FAST stations (with attached CHAdeMO adapters). Employees need to activate their ChargePoint cards with a code that lets us use these stations free of cost for up to four hours (1:10 for the DC FAST). So far I've put a little over 2,800 miles on the car and my only expense has been for two sessions at the Cupertino Supercharger for a total under $16.

I've not had to use other ChargePoint stations around the area since I'm getting replenished at work, and soon to be at home with a HPWC that's still sitting in its box. The app shows me enough stations in the area in case I need an emergency charge. And I have already installed the PlugShare app which covers even more stations. I've charged for free at Flights Restaurant in Los Gatos and at the Santa Clara Valley Water District, both places that I don't think the ChargePoint app shows. For an upcoming trip to L.A. I'm naturally planning on using Superchargers but it's nice to have a backup plan in case something unexpected comes up.

 

[cwerdna]

(I finally went backwards thru this thread)

. But for some reason everyone gets them installed, when they could have installed 10x Tesla wall connectors or 100x 240v outlets instead, not including utility upgrades. They must have a really good cold-call sales department or something?

Installing Tesla wall connectors is useless for all non-Tesla EVs/PHEVs.

And, as I said in another reply, installing 240 volt outlets is almost as useless, adds more confusion and creates numerous other problems (e.g. drivers needing to buy a 208/240 volt portable EVSE, remembering to bring it, having it possibly stolen, them not being necessarily weatherproof, etc.)

Neither of the above provide for any access control, billing (if required), time limits, realtime nor near realtime status, alerts, notifications, besides having wear issues w/the outlet and the plethora of different 240 volt outlet types (adding to more confusion). And, there are numerous safety issues w/having 240 volt outlets that would be energized at all times. Wayback Machine has the benefits of J1772.

A 100D that arrives at this place could take up to 40 hours to fully charge. Ridiculous.

Don't use a level 2 30 amp EVSE then. Use something faster. There are CHAdeMO DC fast chargers on the Chargepoint network besides a ton that aren't on it.

Currently all non-Tesla powered consumer mass-market EVs/PHEVs sold/leased in the US have OBCs that are 7.2 kW or less. 240 volts * 30 amps = 7,200 watts = 7.2 kW

Let's assume it takes 110 kWh from the "wall" to charge a 100D. At 7.2 kW, it would ~15.7 hours, not 40. If it were at 6.2 kW (which would be common the common commercial voltage of 208 volts), it'd take ~17.7 hours.

Nobody at my work commutes from so far away that a 100 kWh car needs to be charged to full to make it home.

NEMA 14-50 can't go higher than a 40 amp continuous load.

 

[GSP]

@cwerdna ,

14-50 is a practical solution for occasional use at B&B's. 40 Amps at 240 V is great for overnight charging, and 14-50s also work fine at campgrounds. I don't think anyone is suggesting they be used for daily workplace charging.

If your chosen automaker supplies a 120 V only charge cord, why do you accept this? It is plain stupidity not to provide a 120/240 V capable unit. Not only Tesla does this. Volvo supplies AeroVironment TurboCords. I think Nissan also has 240 V capability now (for higher trim only?). Chevrolet provides charge cords for the Bolt EV and Volt that unofficially support 240 V, and there may be others.

GSP

 

[SageBrush]

And, there are numerous safety issues w/having 240 volt outlets that would be energized at all times

Don't tell the Europeans.

Personally, I like the idea of 14-50 outlets if they allow a much wider distribution although your points about theft and wear on the outlet are certainly valid. I looked at outlets at an RV park near my home and wondered how the entire thing had not gone up in flames.

 

[cwerdna]

@cwerdna ,

14-50 is a practical solution for occasional use at B&B's. 40 Amps at 240 V is great for overnight charging, and 14-50s also work fine at campgrounds. I don't think anyone is suggesting they be used for daily workplace charging.

Read AWDTesla's posts.

If your chosen automaker supplies a 120 V only charge cord, why do you accept this? It is plain stupidity not to provide a 120/240 V capable unit. Not only Tesla does this. Volvo supplies AeroVironment TurboCords. I think Nissan also has 240 V capability now (for higher trim only?). Chevrolet provides charge cords for the Bolt EV and Volt that unofficially support 240 V, and there may be others.

Nissan supplies an optional 120/240 volt L2 EVSE on the '18 Leaf as either part of a package on the two lower trim levels (S and SV) and standard on the SL. They didn't in any prior US model years.

Volvo wasn't selling EVs or PHEVs in the US in 2010 or 2011. Volvo including Turbocord wasn't announced until mid-2015, is only 16 amps max and for 240 volts, includes a NEMA 6-20 plug. Chevy has only been including 120 volt EVSEs. Ditto for Ford, Fiat, Mitsubishi (2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV FAQ | Mitsubishi Motors implies only 120 volt included, just like the i-MiEV), BMW, and AFAIK VW and Audi, (List of automakers at June 2018 Hybrid Cars Sales Dashboard - HybridCars.com.)

Honda for the Clarity Electric from what I can tell at Clarity FAQs only includes an L1 EVSE. Looks like Prius Prime only comes w/120 volt EVSE from 2018 Toyota Prius Prime Plug-In Hybrid | Let's imagine the new possible which would've been like its predecessor, the Plug-in Prius. Pacifica Hybrid (PHEV) only comes with L1 per 2018 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid - Fuel Efficient Minivan (search for 120).

Name some other US non-Tesla EVs/PHEVs that ship standard with portable 120, 208/240 volt capable L2 EVSEs. I'm pretty confident they're in the tiny minority, by model, esp. before the '18 model year.

 

[SageBrush]

^^ If that was the only issue I would say that if I can buy an L2 EVSE for home then owners of LEAF etc can buy one for mobile. Come to think of it, my OEM LEAF EVSE has been upgraded to L2.

I forgot because it was an emergency preparedness step I took I have never used. All my L2 charging away from home has been at Chargepoints

 

[Pkmmte]

That was your mistake. Don't waste time on the phone w/them. Get a card from them first and sign up online ahead of time.

All the level 2 portions of the Chargepoint EVSEs I've used have a 30 amp max output per handle although there are some CT-4000 w/power sharing (ChargePoint Introduces CT4000-Series Charger with Unique Power Sharing Option) where if there are 2 connected vehicles, each only gets 15 amps (not sure if 1 goes back to 30 if a connected vehicle is done). 30 amps * 208 volts (common commercial power) = 6,240 watts = 6.24 kW. The Teslas I've seen attached to Chargepoint (I've started sessions for them) tend to be able to draw ~6.2 kW at my work (~208 volt supply voltage).

We used to have 3 stations that had power sharing until facilities ran a 2nd 40 amp feed to each of them.

I have accounts w/Chargepoint, Blink, Semaconnect and Evgo. The first two I've had the longest. I've so far only used Chargepoint (what we have at work), which is almost every weekday for over 5 years. My Aug 2018 driver summary email says I added 560 kWh. Most of that went in other cars, not mine, since I semi-often start sessions for others at my work.

How is the average consumer supposed to know this?

I tried it the first time out of curiosity. I got to a Walgreens, noticed it had one stall with two cords, and thought "oh cool, let's plug in!". The average consumer is likely to think of these as gas stations where you can just plug in and pay. You can't expect them to sign up for every single charging network ahead of time just in case they ever need it, much less know about this to begin with.

That reminds me of a time when my boss (also a Model 3 owner) went to a mall with superchargers because he was running low on charge and could not make it home without charging for a bit. There was a huge line of Teslas waiting to charge at the 16 supercharger stalls but there were 5 empty chargepoint stalls nearby in the same parking lot. I let him know about those and he drove towards them.

As soon as he parked and found out about the process to begin a charge, he said "F this. There's only so much idiocy I can deal with in one day." and got into the mall without even plugging in. He came back later that night to supercharge before going home.

This is a guy's first experience with an EV. He is not a car person nor very knowledgeable of EVs. We can't expect to capture this audience if the process for charging isn't at least as convenient as they're used to.

On a slightly unrelated topic: I drove to a Jersey Mike's yesterday and found a public Clipper Creek EVSE that wasn't even listed on PlugShare. All I had to do was plug in. Granted, this one was free, but it was far more convenient.

 

[Nocturnal]

Functionally, to the EV owner, they are the same, Although actually, the non-commercial one is more reliable and likely to be FUNCTIONAL.

The issue here is that CP is charging another $2500 to $3000 to be listed on their web site, with inferior hardware. If they actually cared about their EV clients, they would let a business owner with thteor non-commercial owners be listed. Business owner is not expecting to add new business with this, he’s doing it for the convenience of his guests.

They are only in business to generate revenue from their pay per charge and free host charging network.

 

[Eno Deb]

As soon as he parked and found out about the process to begin a charge, he said "F this. There's only so much idiocy I can deal with in one day." and got into the mall without even plugging in. He came back later that night to supercharge before going home.

This is a guy's first experience with an EV. He is not a car person nor very knowledgeable of EVs. We can't expect to capture this audience if the process for charging isn't at least as convenient as they're used to.

You're making a mountain of a molehill. Here's how I charge every day at our workplace chargers: (1) tap phone on charger, (2) remove plug from charger, (3) stick plug in my car.

On a slightly unrelated topic: I drove to a Jersey Mike's yesterday and found a public Clipper Creek EVSE that wasn't even listed on PlugShare. All I had to do was plug in. Granted, this one was free, but it was far more convenient.

Hopefully you added the charger to Plugshare?

 

[Pkmmte]

You're making a mountain of a molehill. Here's how I charge every day at our workplace chargers: (1) tap phone on charger, (2) remove plug from charger, (3) stick plug in my car.
Hopefully you added the charger to Plugshare?

My point is that we shouldn't have to sign up for a network before using it. Anyone should be able to do what you just described, but without step 0: sign up for chargepoint ahead of time. :/

And yup! It's the one by 8400 Balboa Blvd in Northridge, CA.

 

[Eno Deb]

My point is that we shouldn't have to sign up for a network before using it. Anyone should be able to do what you just described, but without step 0: sign up for chargepoint ahead of time. :/

That is actually possible if you have a contactless credit card or a card in Apple Pay/Android Pay. I'm not sure though if that works on all stations or can be en-/disabled by each owner individually (haven't tried in a while since I always use my account).

 

[WileyTheMan]

Overall I've had good experiences so far with CP. Before I got my 3, I made sure to sign up for CP so it'd be an easy thing to get started on. I knew it's relatively expensive to use. I knew it would be slower that superchargers. But it's really nice to have it available in a pinch. Teslas have the best of both worlds, really.

The only thing I don't like about their curb-side chargers is I have to stretch the cable across the car to plug it in.