Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[GtiMart]

I will first say this: I also think it's bad that the option was removed. It could have defaulted to high so the EPA test is good without removing options for end users.

With that said, it is absolutely not necessary to reduce regen on the snow. I have driven two full winters in Quebec with heavy snow and ice and it is not a problem. Yes, local groups recommend reducing regen but I believe that's not necessary. The traction and stability control systems (on the Model 3 at least) are almost magical, they react extremely well. Some people have tried to make the car spin (on Youtube) and were unable to.

I think it's just because people panic at the slightest slip, even if it's just an inch sideways. Here's why there's no way around it: In order to find the limits of traction of the tire and the surface, you need to go over that limit. Once you go over, the system can detect it and reduce power, apply brakes to stabilize the car etc. If you want to continuously be at the traction limit, since conditions change all the time, you must push power back up slowly until you hit the limit again, then adjust downwards. It's a never-ending dance, oscillating between under and over the traction limit. The feeling is that the back tires will slip ever so slightly. However, you can have confidence that the backend will never go in front. Those of us that have driven AWD cars rally-style can adjust more easily than people that used to drive FWD I guess. (In a FWD car, when the front wheels lose traction, the car goes straight instead of turning...)

A similar thing happens with ABS brakes: they brake until the wheels slip, then ABS reduces braking power until traction is regained, then power is slowly applied again until it slips, reduces etc. The same dance. When you let go of the accelerator and start doing regen, it's the equivalent of braking. Would you brake hard on snow? Probably not. Then just don't let go of the accelerator "hard". Note that even if you do, the traction and stability control systems will rapidly react. Regen is reduced until the wheels stop slipping, then is augmented slowly until it slips, then reduced again. The same dance...

It's easy to stop that from happening: don't accelerate hard, and don't brake/regen hard. Even if you do, you can be safe because the systems do an extraordinary job. I strongly suggest playing in an empty parking lot to get accustomed to the feeling.

 

[Tipjar]

"...think of it as a '1-speed manual transmission'"

Good description.

 

[73Bruin]

I'm glad my June 2020 has the option to set regen to low. I use low only when driving in the snow; that's an important option for me. If regen worked on all four wheels, it may be OK, but heavy rear-wheel-only regen in the snow is not ideal. You have to let off the gas pedal to hit the brakes, so gentle 4-wheel braking isn't possible without low regen.

I must have missed something. I have read the reports that the LR AWD has a heavy RWD bias but I have never seen anything that stated that regenerative braking had a similar bias. This seems almost counterintuitive as I have always understood that most braking is done by the front wheels even on cars with matching brakes front and back.

 

[Gadget63]

Regen maximizes range. It also reduces the need to brake to almost zero. I am amazed at how steep a hill it can be going down and still actually reduce its speed. My model Y will never need brake pads. My dad taught me to drive and said drive with the gas not the brakes. Just get used to it. Very gentle inputs. its not tough just a little different.

It's actually so easy to get used to and a very relaxing way to drive

 

[MY-Y]

I must have missed something. I have read the reports that the LR AWD has a heavy RWD bias but I have never seen anything that stated that regenerative braking had a similar bias. This seems almost counterintuitive as I have always understood that most braking is done by the front wheels even on cars with matching brakes front and back.

With the OBD-II adapter and the scanmytesla app, you can monitor all sorts of things like this. The regen isn't rear-wheel biased, it's 100% rear wheels, 0% front.

 

[qdeathstar]

I always use full regen so this doesn’t effect me but it is pretty stupid to remove a useful feature for marketing purposes

 

[WindPower]

There seems to be two different regen methods in electric cars:
- turn on the generator when you lift your foot off the ‘gas’ pedal. This allows the driver to feather the accelerator to coast or gradually slow down.
- coast when you lift your foot off the gas, and turn on the generator when you hit the brake pedal. This is more similar to the way conventional fossil fuel powered cars brake.

I’ve owned a BMW i3 and currently own a Y, both which have the first type (turn on regen when you lift your foot off the gas). I have a family member who has an Audi e-tron which uses the ‘coast until you hit the brake pedal’.

I happen to like the Y/i3 regen method, but for someone driving an electric car for the first time, there is more of a learning curve with the Y/i3 method.

I had no trouble getting used to the Audi e-tron, which uses a regen method which is probably easier for buyers migrating from ICE to electric.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to turn off regen but an option for the e-tron style regen might be helpful for new electric car owners.

 

[angus[Y]oung]

It reminds me of either driving an electric remote control car as a kid, or certain racing video games work the same way where you have to be on the accelerator to keep forward momentum.

I like it.

 

[kingamoon]

I often rent M3s and MYs and the first thing I did was set it to Low. Yesterday, I rented a MY and left it at NORMAL and HOLD. It literally took me less than 15 minutes of driving to get used to it. And another 20 minutes to prefer it over the LOW setting. So, at least for me, the learning curve wasn't bad at all.

 

[papab]

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the missing feature in Tesla's, hybrid braking with the brake pedal. I'd like configurable one pedal braking + hybrid braking with the brake pedal. Tesla may be the only one lacking this.

 

[DanDi58]

I must have missed something. I have read the reports that the LR AWD has a heavy RWD bias but I have never seen anything that stated that regenerative braking had a similar bias. This seems almost counterintuitive as I have always understood that most braking is done by the front wheels even on cars with matching brakes front and back.

Well, the brakes aren't used during regen so this doesn't apply.

 

[Puma2020]

I had issues coming from a standard and driving my LR AWD Y with the standard regen. I was used to coasting up to lights and the regen was too strong. Initially, I set it to low regen which helped. Made it similar to the Prius regen mentioned above. However, as I started going up and down hills more, I switched to the standard regen and have never gone back. What most standard transmission drivers don't get initially (including me), is that pressing the accelerator a wee bit doesn't mean use energy from the battery. Sometimes it means lower the regen. As mentioned above, once you get used to feathering the accelerator, you can have the regen of your dreams. I now love 1 pedal driving. Like any new technology, you have to get used to it. The key is to learn to feather so that it lowers the regen so it appears to coast up to lights or stop signs. The downside is that my wife is now used to ultra smooth driving and now dislikes AutoPilot's rushing up to stop signs and lights and heavier regen braking. She has always dislikes the rapid acceleration, but seriously... I can't help myself!

 

[avs007]

I must have missed something. I have read the reports that the LR AWD has a heavy RWD bias but I have never seen anything that stated that regenerative braking had a similar bias. This seems almost counterintuitive as I have always understood that most braking is done by the front wheels even on cars with matching brakes front and back.

There is no technical limitation that says that the motor that is providing locomotion must be the same motor providing regenerative braking..

 

[Yoliber]

Aren't pmm more efficient in regen compared to induction motors? That doesn't explain why the S/X bias the rear for regen as well. I think they do at least.

If there was a setting between standard and low regen that would be my preference (on top of blended brakes). It'll be easier and more efficient to keep a steady speed.

I personally think I'm good with one pedal driving, but after riding in all of my friend's Tesla's, who think they are good at it too, I'm starting to doubt myself because they all suck at it. So now I just drive in chill mode because the acceleration mapping has a slow ramp, which makes it easier to control, but still less than ideal.

 

[B_E_V]

I took a long MY test drive last week, and I felt reasonably comfortable with 1-pedal regen by the time I reached home. However, the different habits I built during that test drive caused me to run up closer to someone's bumper than I intended today while driving my ICE when it did NOT slow down without the brake pedal. I could definitely see habits being a problem if one had to regularly switch between 1-pedal and an ICE with automatic transmission.

My wife took a short drive in the MY during the test drive, and she absolutely hated the regen braking. I didn't realize during the test drive that I couldn't turn it off for her which was unfortunate. My wife would only rarely drive the MY if I buy one to replace my ICE. So I fear she would have a far more difficult time adjusting while she is still mostly driving her current ICE.

I also fear she will not like the fairly aggressive braking and acceleration the MY uses when in cruise control in heavy traffic. She grumbles when I accelerate and coast to slow down with the switches for my ICE's dumb cruise control which is very very smooth compared to letting the MY do all that work.

While I expect to use 1-pedal with regen set to maximum in my next car, the inability to turn 1-pedal driving off is definitely a small mark in the against column as I consider buying the MY. (The lower ground clearance than our current vehicles, and the short CUV instead of tall SUV rear openings are much larger marks against the MY for our household.)

 

[Yoliber]

Keep in mind regen strength also varies based on SoC and temperature

 

[angus[Y]oung]

However, the different habits I built during that test drive caused me to run up closer to someone's bumper than I intended today while driving my ICE when it did NOT slow down without the brake pedal. I could definitely see habits being a problem if one had to regularly switch between 1-pedal and an ICE with automatic transmission.

@B_E_V I can't give personal experience here as we only had a small overlap where we had both the Model Y and my older ICE vehicle before selling it to friends of the family, but my thought is that you may have it backward in the part I quoted here. I think if you're switching regularly, you're actually going to have an easier time being conscious of habits in both. I think the bigger problem is if you are doing 1-pedal driving most/all of the time and then need to drive an ICE vehicle for whatever reason on occasion, I can see that being tougher to re-adjust.

 

[DanDi58]

@B_E_V I can't give personal experience here as we only had a small overlap where we had both the Model Y and my older ICE vehicle before selling it to friends of the family, but my thought is that you may have it backward in the part I quoted here. I think if you're switching regularly, you're actually going to have an easier time being conscious of habits in both. I think the bigger problem is if you are doing 1-pedal driving most/all of the time and then need to drive an ICE vehicle for whatever reason on occasion, I can see that being tougher to re-adjust.

It’s not really that difficult. I just spent 5 days in FL driving a Ford Edge and it took me maybe a minute to adjust. Of course I’ve been driving since 1974.

 

[smogne41]

I had issues coming from a standard and driving my LR AWD Y with the standard regen. I was used to coasting up to lights and the regen was too strong. Initially, I set it to low regen which helped. Made it similar to the Prius regen mentioned above. However, as I started going up and down hills more, I switched to the standard regen and have never gone back. What most standard transmission drivers don't get initially (including me), is that pressing the accelerator a wee bit doesn't mean use energy from the battery. Sometimes it means lower the regen. As mentioned above, once you get used to feathering the accelerator, you can have the regen of your dreams. I now love 1 pedal driving. Like any new technology, you have to get used to it. The key is to learn to feather so that it lowers the regen so it appears to coast up to lights or stop signs. The downside is that my wife is now used to ultra smooth driving and now dislikes AutoPilot's rushing up to stop signs and lights and heavier regen braking. She has always dislikes the rapid acceleration, but seriously... I can't help myself!

Are you sure that you can't still turn off 1-peddle? I was under the impression you could just no longer adjust the "Regenerative Breaking" (standard vs. low regen). There is a separate menu setting (at least in the older cars) for "Stopping Mode" where you can choose "creep", "roll", or "hold". This is the setting that allows 1-peddle driving. "Creep" will give you the standard automatic transmission creep forward, "roll" will phase out the regen below ~5mph (so you control the breaking for the last little bit), but 'hold" will regen all the way down to zero and then put on the friction breaks. The last one is the 1-peddle mode.

I tried the 1-peddle "hold" mode for a while and did not like it either. It was much harder to stop exactly where I wanted and it was harsher than stopping manually. I do generally keep regen set to "normal" unless I am driving in winter weather. Can somebody with one of the newer cars comment on this?

 

[mswlogo]

For those with a tendency toward motion sickness, the solution is to drive more smoothly - feather the accelerator, plan your stops further ahead, etc. Chill mode helps with passengers that easily get motion sickness.

To answer your question, low regen was removed in order to boost the EPA figures due to the way the EPA handles driving modes.

Right. If you have motion sickness passengers it's usually more due to the driver over accelerating than the mild regen.

My dogs will puke at the drop of a hat from motion sickness. They have zero issue driving in Model 3 or Model X with it on max Regen.
But I tended to keep both in Chill mode. Not that it makes much difference in keeping things smooth, it just helps me from being overzealous