Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[smogne41]

My wife is very prone to motion sickness. She is no worse in the Tesla than in other cars (as a passenger) with full regen, "chill" and "roll" settings. Standard acceleration is....not good for her

 

[mswlogo]

Are you sure that you can't still turn off 1-peddle? I was under the impression you could just no longer adjust the "Regenerative Breaking" (standard vs. low regen). There is a separate menu setting (at least in the older cars) for "Stopping Mode" where you can choose "creep", "roll", or "hold". This is the setting that allows 1-peddle driving. "Creep" will give you the standard automatic transmission creep forward, "roll" will phase out the regen below ~5mph (so you control the breaking for the last little bit), but 'hold" will regen all the way down to zero and then put on the friction breaks. The last one is the 1-peddle mode.

I tried the 1-peddle "hold" mode for a while and did not like it either. It was much harder to stop exactly where I wanted and it was harsher than stopping manually. I do generally keep regen set to "normal" unless I am driving in winter weather. Can somebody with one of the newer cars comment on this?

I have the hold mode on with standard regen. I don't even think or have to do anything special. It's completely natural, completely smooth. Sometimes I use the brake, no big deal. If I come up short you give it a little accelerator. If coming in to fast use a little brake. You should be able to drive smooth in any of the modes to be honest. And it's easy for it to be second nature in any mode once you drive in it for while. I used to use creep before hold became available (which I felt was safer for parking in tight spots).

 

[smogne41]

I have the hold mode on with standard regen. I don't even think or have to do anything special. It's completely natural, completely smooth. Sometimes I use the brake, no big deal. If I come up short you give it a little accelerator. If coming in to fast use a little brake. You should be able to drive smooth in any of the modes to be honest. And it's easy for it to be second nature in any mode once you drive in it for while. I used to use creep before hold became available (which I felt was safer for parking in tight spots).

Yeah, many seem to like 1-peddle. Definitely not for me though, at least not Tesla's implementation. Just seemed kinda crude and unrefined. I never even tried "creep" though, I never liked that in all the auotmatics I have driven and was happy to get away from it. I do prefer standard regen, but still not happy they took away the option for those that prefer it. It seems like Tesla is just on a mission these days to narrow their base of potential customers a percent or two at a time with every feature they take away. Just removing this simple setting cost them several sales, if the posters in the thread are to be believed (and I do believe them). Not a great trajectory for the company...

 

[brianman]

Model Y ... I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update....

...

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking....

This is the first I've heard of any firmware version of any Tesla vehicle having a "disable" option for regenerative braking. "Low" sure, but never "off" or "disabled".

 

[DanDi58]

Are you sure that you can't still turn off 1-peddle? I was under the impression you could just no longer adjust the "Regenerative Breaking" (standard vs. low regen). There is a separate menu setting (at least in the older cars) for "Stopping Mode" where you can choose "creep", "roll", or "hold". This is the setting that allows 1-peddle driving. "Creep" will give you the standard automatic transmission creep forward, "roll" will phase out the regen below ~5mph (so you control the breaking for the last little bit), but 'hold" will regen all the way down to zero and then put on the friction breaks. The last one is the 1-peddle mode.

I tried the 1-peddle "hold" mode for a while and did not like it either. It was much harder to stop exactly where I wanted and it was harsher than stopping manually. I do generally keep regen set to "normal" unless I am driving in winter weather. Can somebody with one of the newer cars comment on this?

In the newer cars, like mine, there is no option to change the amount of regen - that is the issue for some. I can change to creep, roll or hold (I use the latter) but that doesn't change the amount of regen, only the behavior of the car when you stop. I think 1 'pedal' driving is the best thing since sliced bread and have no issue judging stops.

 

[mswlogo]

Yeah, many seem to like 1-peddle. Definitely not for me though, at least not Tesla's implementation. Just seemed kinda crude and unrefined. I never even tried "creep" though, I never liked that in all the auotmatics I have driven and was happy to get away from it. I do prefer standard regen, but still not happy they took away the option for those that prefer it. It seems like Tesla is just on a mission these days to narrow their base of potential customers a percent or two at a time with every feature they take away. Just removing this simple setting cost them several sales, if the posters in the thread are to be believed (and I do believe them). Not a great trajectory for the company...

Me thinks it’s the driver that is crude and unrefined. Seriously. Because you can easily drive absolutely silky smooth with no effort. You are way over thinking things.

I do wish Tesla had more acceleration options in the performance models though.

Just as with any car, after you OWN it (unlike OP) you will come together (usually).

I remember on a stick my wife and I got once. We could not use the clutch smooth for a good 10k miles. After that it was the smoothest stick ever for the next 12 years and 230K miles. Sold with original clutch

 

[DanDi58]

Yeah, many seem to like 1-peddle. Definitely not for me though, at least not Tesla's implementation. Just seemed kinda crude and unrefined. I never even tried "creep" though, I never liked that in all the auotmatics I have driven and was happy to get away from it. I do prefer standard regen, but still not happy they took away the option for those that prefer it. It seems like Tesla is just on a mission these days to narrow their base of potential customers a percent or two at a time with every feature they take away. Just removing this simple setting cost them several sales, if the posters in the thread are to be believed (and I do believe them). Not a great trajectory for the company...

Yes, their sales are definitely being impacted by this... Q2 is sold out, last time I checked.

 

[Yoliber]

Me thinks it’s the driver that is crude and unrefined. Seriously. Because you can easily drive absolutely silky smooth with no effort. You are way over thinking things.

I do wish Tesla had more acceleration options in the performance models though.

Just as with any car, after you OWN it (unlike OP) you will come together (usually).

I remember on a stick my wife and I got once. We could not use the clutch smooth for a good 10k miles. After that it was the smoothest stick ever for the next 12 years and 230K miles. Sold with original clutch

I agree with you, but a car should be designed to make it easier for the driver. Dealing with it shouldn't be the solution or else automatic transmissions would've never been a thing.

 

[smogne41]

Yes, their sales are definitely being impacted by this... Q2 is sold out, last time I checked.

You are correct. They are still strongly production constrained. Once the next two factories are open, they hopefully will not be. And hopefully we will have real competition soon that will force Tesla to do better (and for us to have other viable EV choices).

 

[mswlogo]

I agree with you, but a car should be designed to make it easier for the driver. Dealing with it shouldn't be the solution or else automatic transmissions would've never been a thing.

There is nothing to "deal with".

 

[frankvb]

There seems to be two different regen methods in electric cars:
- turn on the generator when you lift your foot off the ‘gas’ pedal. This allows the driver to feather the accelerator to coast or gradually slow down.
- coast when you lift your foot off the gas, and turn on the generator when you hit the brake pedal. This is more similar to the way conventional fossil fuel powered cars brake.

I’ve owned a BMW i3 and currently own a Y, both which have the first type (turn on regen when you lift your foot off the gas). I have a family member who has an Audi e-tron which uses the ‘coast until you hit the brake pedal’.

I happen to like the Y/i3 regen method, but for someone driving an electric car for the first time, there is more of a learning curve with the Y/i3 method.

I had no trouble getting used to the Audi e-tron, which uses a regen method which is probably easier for buyers migrating from ICE to electric.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to turn off regen but an option for the e-tron style regen might be helpful for new electric car owners.

Actually most EVs (at least the Nissan Leaf I used to have) have a setting that allows you to change the '1-pedal' regen strength, and will always do blended braking/regen by using the brake pedal as well. Best of both worlds IMHO.

I believe Tesla had problems implementing blended braking/regen smoothly initially and just went with the current setup. If that's the case, it is a very poor excuse for removing the low/high regen setting.

BTW: If they had implemented blended braking/regen, that would also take away the EPA rating argument, as there would be no difference in regen using 1-pedal driving or blended braking/regen.

Having said that, for me it's not a problem as I am used to (and like) the strong regen setting, but I think it's a personal choice that should not be forced upon you.

 

[WindPower]

Having said that, for me it's not a problem as I am used to (and like) the strong regen setting, but I think it's a personal choice that should not be forced upon you.

I agree. I like strong regen but options to change the level and method of regen would help some drivers new to EVs.

 

[avs007]

I agree. I like strong regen but options to change the level and method of regen would help some drivers new to EVs.

I only worry about strong regen on the snow.

 

[drtimhill]

Just removing this simple setting cost them several sales, if the posters in the thread are to be believed (and I do believe them). Not a great trajectory for the company...

As others have noted, this was an EPA mileage rating thing, and I'd guess they picked up as many sales through this as they lost with people not wanting regen.

 

[smogne41]

As others have noted, this was an EPA mileage rating thing, and I'd guess they picked up as many sales through this as they lost with people not wanting regen

The EPA range rating thing is pure speculation, since Tesla has never said one way or another (and since they don't have a PR department they don't respond to media questions any longer). This explanation/excuse just came from the volunteer Tesla PR department aka fanbois. According to this description of how the EPA test is done, Tesla did not need to remove this option to get better numbers anyway, they just would nave needed to make 'normal' regen the default at startup:

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

 

[iwannam3]

The reason cars like the Mini Cooper S "require" premium gas is that is what the horsepower, torque and EPA mileage numbers were generated with. They will run fine on regular with the modern knock sensors, but produce less HP, Torque and mileage. I bet the EPA range numbers on Teslas were done on full regen. Some people can't or won't do simple things like resting hand on steering wheel to apply a small amount of torque for cruise control or slowly lifting foot off accelerator to slow down. They are capable of complaining though.

 

[DaveORD]

Tesla could have done this differently and everybody would have been happy.

Several years ago I worked on a project to add Wi-Fi to an existing product for a well known company. IIRC in order to sell it in California, the radio had to default to the off position so the device was using the least amount of power as possible, and then if the end user wanted the Wi-Fi capability enabled, they could do some button press sequence to enable it. So CA was happy since the default was least amount of power usage by default, and the customer was happy in that if they did want the Wi-Fi feature, they could enable that too, at expensive of minimally more power usage.

All Tesla had to do was ship cars with the regen setting at max, and then if the customer wanted to change it, there would be a pop up on their screen to inform the user about the change they were about to make and get them to confirm it. Something like the MS/MX ludicrous mode pop up. That way the MY ships with config that meets EPA so Tesla is happy, and customer can override that setting if they wish, knowing the consequences of using lower regen via that pop message box before they change it. Everybody wins, easy peasy. With all the brilliant stuff Tesla does, they can totally screw it up too sometimes. ???

As for myself, I can still change my setting, only used low regen once in a hard rain where I was concerned about hydroplaning, and all other times it has been the normal/max setting. Took me 5-10 minutes to adjust my driving style to one pedal when I picked up at SC, long before I arrived back home that day. I grew up driving standards, so not a hard transition to make.

 

[drtimhill]

The EPA range rating thing is pure speculation, since Tesla has never said one way or another (and since they don't have a PR department they don't respond to media questions any longer). This explanation/excuse just came from the volunteer Tesla PR department aka fanbois. According to this description of how the EPA test is done, Tesla did not need to remove this option to get better numbers anyway, they just would nave needed to make 'normal' regen the default at startup:

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

Perhaps. Or perhaps they removed it to annoy you?

 

[Yoliber]

Easier to accept Tesla removed low regen for EPA numbers. Now I'm reading they're removing features to annoy me... Bummer...

 

[smogne41]

Perhaps. Or perhaps they removed it to annoy you?

I don't buy the EPA range excuse. My bet is that it was Elon's idea to 'clean up' the interface or some such to simplify the settings. That or there really was a hardware change in the electronics that made it necessary (kinda seems unlikely, but possible especially with the S/X using a Model 3 motor/inverter in the front).