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Why do people really want Tesla to fail?

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Then you stopped being rational.


The speed and acceleration are simply a side benefit of creating a long range EV, which is the only kind which will actually sell. Lithium mining is mostly letting salt piles dry in desert environments, and a lithium ion battery pack is only about 2% lithium. Tesla's NCA cell chemistry uses less cobalt than other OEM's and most cobalt is produced as a byproduct of existing copper and nickle mines. If you have a problem with those mining operations you better not use any electronic devices, and I'll expect you to immediately disappear from this forum and the internet and go live as a stone age gatherer, unless of course you're just a hypocrite. By the way, the flamethrowers were propane weed burners reconfigured as flame throwers. I assume you also hate companies selling weed burners and the people who buy them.


Tesla has singlehandedly sped up the move to electric propulsion and grid energy storage which will make transportation and power generation much cleaner. They are forcing other OEM's to speed up their efforts as well. The fact that you can't see that says volumes about your thought process.



You reveal much about yourself with that unhinged irrational rant. You don't understand Tesla or Elon at all and obviously have not done any actual research to challenge your assumptions.

So we are clear, you didnt once disagree that they are dishonest. Which is my main issue with them. Musk thinks the rules dont apply to him. That mentality, combined with the fake nature caring while flying his G650ER all around the world take the shine off everything.

Normally I love big thinkers with big ideas, and I admit Musk is that, but that admiration stops once fraud is involved.


As for why I am here, I joined the INvestor forum to read some rational bull thesis. Which I got and actually enjoyed. Some make decent points, but my position is unchanged.
 
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So we are clear, you didnt once disagree that they are dishonest.
And they didn't disagree that you are either. So....

Which is my main issue with them. Musk thinks the rules dont apply to him.

What are these rules of which you speak?

That mentality, combined with the fake nature caring while flying his G650ER all around the world take the shine off everything.
That guy saving time in a plane has helped get a company going that has created an electric fleet with over 7.2 Billion miles. At a MPGe of 60, that is 120 million gallons of gas saved. A G650ER burns 3,100 pounds per hour (462 gallons) at Mach .88 (~500kts), so equivalent fuel usage requires 120 million / 462 * 500 = 130 million nautical miles of travel or around the Earth 5,539 times (at 8 nm altitude).

Even applying the correct GHG/pound conversion ratios, I think we can agree that the usage of the aircraft is insignificant relative to the total GHG savings.
 
So can you list why Tesla is dishonest? Is it because they miss their timelines or is there something more sinster .

They are dead last in self-driving, they have a poor quality lane assist that barely qualifies as level 2. Yet claim a coast to coast drive is right around the corner.


GM Leads, Tesla & Apple Trail Deeply In Navigant Research Self-Driving Report | CleanTechnica



Yet they market is as auto-pilot, constantly talk about how they are just months away from FSD. They do everything they can to present their product as if it is autonomous driving (it's called auto-pilot ffs). They even charge for FSD that they dont have and will likely never have.


However, when it beheads some poor guy watching harry potter, then drives another 300 yards before stopping. They immediately blame the driver for trusting their product too much (the one they do everything they can to represent as extra safe and more than what it is).


To double down, they lie about being kicked off the investigation in the California crash, just to get ahead of the news.


Federal agency says it booted Tesla from crash probe. Tesla denies, will complain to Congress


Just an outright lie to avoid bad press. Meanwhile playing the victim like they care about your safety.




There is a lawsuit from 13 insiders saying that Musk knowingly lied about model 3 ramp issues:

Tesla Shareholder Lawsuit Claims Elon Musk Misled Investors on Model 3 Goals



So killing people, misleading investors, and selling vaporware to customers. Great hero you have.

Some people like being pissed on and being told it's raining, im just not one of those people.


There are many many many more but im going to leave here and go back to the investor forum where i belong. I just wanted to answer the question so it's not a mystery.



A phrase that is often used in accounting world that I think applies here.

"There is never a little fraud"
 
They are dead last in self-driving, they have a poor quality lane assist that barely qualifies as level 2. Yet claim a coast to coast drive is right around the corner.


GM Leads, Tesla & Apple Trail Deeply In Navigant Research Self-Driving Report | CleanTechnica



Yet they market is as auto-pilot, constantly talk about how they are just months away from FSD. They do everything they can to present their product as if it is autonomous driving (it's called auto-pilot ffs). They even charge for FSD that they dont have and will likely never have.


However, when it beheads some poor guy watching harry potter, then drives another 300 yards before stopping. They immediately blame the driver for trusting their product too much (the one they do everything they can to represent as extra safe and more than what it is).


To double down, they lie about being kicked off the investigation in the California crash, just to get ahead of the news.


Federal agency says it booted Tesla from crash probe. Tesla denies, will complain to Congress


Just an outright lie to avoid bad press. Meanwhile playing the victim like they care about your safety.




There is a lawsuit from 13 insiders saying that Musk knowingly lied about model 3 ramp issues:

Tesla Shareholder Lawsuit Claims Elon Musk Misled Investors on Model 3 Goals



So killing people, misleading investors, and selling vaporware to customers. Great hero you have.

Some people like being pissed on and being told it's raining, im just not one of those people.


There are many many many more but im going to leave here and go back to the investor forum where i belong. I just wanted to answer the question so it's not a mystery.



A phrase that is often used in accounting world that I think applies here.

"There is never a little fraud"

1.Take GM Self-driving on a spin on a back country road and report back when you have data available.
2. Tesla's survival depends on transparency. A rogue Federal employee can stall investigation for years and let media spin as it will. Tesla will now release AP data every quarter.
3. M3 goals are as is, they are just delayed. Happens all the time. Compared to IT projects etc that never succeed, M3 is already a success, and production targets will be met.

These reasons are very lame (just wanted them listed to see where you are coming from), but do Short at your will ...
 
They are dead last in self-driving, they have a poor quality lane assist that barely qualifies as level 2. Yet claim a coast to coast drive is right around the corner.


GM Leads, Tesla & Apple Trail Deeply In Navigant Research Self-Driving Report | CleanTechnica

Disputed (2017 OEM list from other magazine with actually projected timings). Also unknown how Tesla's system stacks up since they are developing in such a way as to not require disclosure.

Yet they market is as auto-pilot, constantly talk about how they are just months away from FSD. They do everything they can to present their product as if it is autonomous driving (it's called auto-pilot ffs). They even charge for FSD that they dont have and will likely never have.

False, ask any pilot what autopilot is/ does.
False, they allow people to purchase early at a discount, no one is forced to be charged.
True: they have always said FSD in in the future.

However, when it beheads some poor guy watching harry potter, then drives another 300 yards before stopping. They immediately blame the driver for trusting their product too much (the one they do everything they can to represent as extra safe and more than what it is).
False, no evidence of Potter Watching. Also, the car coasted 300 feet.
False, the semi the car drove under beheaded the driver.
True, the driver should have seen the trailer and acted

To double down, they lie about being kicked off the investigation in the California crash, just to get ahead of the news.
Federal agency says it booted Tesla from crash probe. Tesla denies, will complain to Congress
Just an outright lie to avoid bad press. Meanwhile playing the victim like they care about your safety.
Tesla chose to publish vs hold data against NTSB partner agreement thus kicking themselves off by proxy.

There is a lawsuit from 13 insiders saying that Musk knowingly lied about model 3 ramp issues:

Tesla Shareholder Lawsuit Claims Elon Musk Misled Investors on Model 3 Goals

So killing people, misleading investors, and selling vaporware to customers. Great hero you have.
Unverifiable as to truthfulness: Is every lawsuit is valid?

Some people like being pissed on and being told it's raining, im just not one of those people.
So you feel you are being rain upon, and don't like it, but choose to stand in the stream?

There are many many many more but im going to leave here and go back to the investor forum where i belong. I just wanted to answer the question so it's not a mystery.

A phrase that is often used in accounting world that I think applies here.

"There is never a little fraud"

So are you involved in a fraud? Or there is the option of zero fraud?
 
So we are clear, you didnt once disagree that they are dishonest.
To be clear, I do disagree that they are dishonest, didn't think it actually needed to be said. They are ambitious and often fall short in the near term, but that is completely different to your characterization. I don't think there is any point in trying to educate you, your screen name is in direct opposition to your attitude.
 
As for why I am here, I joined the INvestor forum to read some rational bull thesis. Which I got and actually enjoyed. Some make decent points, but my position is unchanged.

Probably because your position is fairly entrenched by now, as is the danger of the typical shorts strategy (also a danger in a blind long strategy, admittedly). Let's come back here in 5 months and talk.

I would say good luck, but I think whether you make a real killing or not - if data show Tesla executed during Q2 as committed in recent days -- the yearly fall squeeze will come your way in its usual fashion. Hope it's not your first time. ;)
 
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replyng to

Besides the fact that trees can't talk, they certainly never use CO2 as a fuel. Sunlight is their fuel. You're username is very, very apt, it's what you do.

I will alert the Solar-to-fuel scientists around the globe that their idea will never work. Thanks for the input.
here, start with these scammers. you should email them asap.
Solar-to-Fuel System Recycles CO2 for Ethanol and Ethylene
 
I will alert the Solar-to-fuel scientists around the globe that their idea will never work. Thanks for the input.
here, start with these scammers. you should email them asap.
Solar-to-Fuel System Recycles CO2 for Ethanol and Ethylene
Note the "solar" part of the "solar-to-fuel" work. That is the "fuel" source. Without some other fuel, CO2 is quite simply not a fuel; it is spent fuel.

Theoretically you can use any fuel to convert a spent fuel back into a fuel. For example you can use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen which converts water into a fuel. But the water before that operation was in no way a fuel itself; there is literally nothing on this planet you can do with water to convert it into a fuel without using more energy doing so than you can get back from using the fuel so created. Similarly you can use electricity (and other fuel sources) to split CO2 into carbon and oxygen which turns it into fuel. However CO2 is not itself a fuel for any plant or machine on Earth. If you throw CO2 into a massive star, then it is actually a fuel in the sense that more energy will come out of the eventual fusion reactions than went into disassociating it and starting the various fusion reactions.

Some day maybe, water could become a fuel for an Earth-based fusion reactor, but that isn't going to happen in anyone alive today's lifetime. CO2 will never be fuel on this planet, because oxygen and carbon fusion reactions don't occur at pressures and temperatures that we will ever be able to create on Earth. Even our Sun is not massive enough to perform carbon or oxygen burning.

You are quite ignorant; I recommend that you educate yourself.
 
Why does a large segment of the US population hate the Big 3? I get that their quality wasn't on par with others 30 years ago, but the differences there are very minor now (and by many metrics Tesla ranks quite low on this parameter). But what many people hated were the "lazy" UAW workers. People thought that they made too much money for what they did, and then got paid to sit on their azz when the plants were idled. I used to work in the auto industry. The vast majority of plant workers work their butts off. But of course there are the few slackers, just like any other workplace. The UAW contracts definitely contained some clauses that limited the competitiveness of the auto companies, but you can't fault the workers for that. In many ways the UAW built our economy and the middle class through the last century, and the reduction in unions is what is a main cause for wages not keeping up over the past couple of decades. Now people see Silicon Valley in the same light. They hear about how expensive it is the live out there and assume that the workers must get paid obscene amounts (I don't even know what a Fremont factory worker gets paid, but I'm sure it's more than a Honda worker in Ohio). And if a company is paying their workers that much, the product must be over priced.

In the end, a lot of it has to do with being jealous of success.
 
I literally linked my source.....

The article was a joke. Come on... There is nothing available from any other automaker currently that holds a candle to Autopilot. The ONLY thing close is super cruise and you're extremely restricted as to where you can even use it so what's the freaking point?

Like I asked before, did you fall and hit your head?

Jeff
 
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Why does a large segment of the US population hate the Big 3? I get that their quality wasn't on par with others 30 years ago, but the differences there are very minor now (and by many metrics Tesla ranks quite low on this parameter). But what many people hated were the "lazy" UAW workers. People thought that they made too much money for what they did, and then got paid to sit on their azz when the plants were idled. I used to work in the auto industry. The vast majority of plant workers work their butts off. But of course there are the few slackers, just like any other workplace. The UAW contracts definitely contained some clauses that limited the competitiveness of the auto companies, but you can't fault the workers for that. In many ways the UAW built our economy and the middle class through the last century, and the reduction in unions is what is a main cause for wages not keeping up over the past couple of decades. Now people see Silicon Valley in the same light. They hear about how expensive it is the live out there and assume that the workers must get paid obscene amounts (I don't even know what a Fremont factory worker gets paid, but I'm sure it's more than a Honda worker in Ohio). And if a company is paying their workers that much, the product must be over priced.

In the end, a lot of it has to do with being jealous of success.

Please... Why do I hate the big three? Because I am forced to be subjected to the sleazy world of stealerships. Even being forced to take my wife Volt for annual service is cringeworthy as you're pounced on like a hungry lion looking for it's next meal...

Last, but certainly not least, unions are a cancer on the workforce. They do nothing but suck their host companies dry while outright defrauding their membership in the process. The entire reasoning for why we have unions to begin with has been completely addressed by modern safety regulations and oversight agencies. Unions exist today solely to protect lazy and incompetent workers while making sure they're paid ridiculous amounts of money.

Jeff
 
I don't think a large segment of the US population hates the Big 3. They are, however, pretty much done with how the dealerships typically operate. Informed potential EV customers in the US understand that GM killed innovations like EV-1, and none of the Big 3 wanted to create EVs for so long. I think that colors peoples' views of the Big 3. Their early refusal to try and forge an EV market, or even see if there was an EV market to begin with through the 90s and 2000s, was drastically short-sighted.

Tesla showed up and made a car that didn't look like the majority of hybrid/EV cars: jellybean-looking things with limited-range. Higher priced? To begin, sure. But I doubt GM would have performed their own battery R&D, or jumped beyond Volt to make the Bolt, if it weren't for Tesla's successful transition from Roadster to Model S in 2013 (that and the US' Bankruptcy bailout terms: which required Volt to move forward in 2008 -- another thing a "segment" o the US population remembers).

I also doubt I-Pace at Jaguar or Mission E at Porsche would be in full-swing in 2018 if it weren't for the 500,000-ish Day One Model 3 reservations that took place in 2016. Another advantage to Tesla in making this market develop in the right direction, despite the typical hate they receive.

Plus Tesla isn't encumbered by unions or the 100 year-old dealership model -- and a lot of automotive insiders HATE that. They can hate all they want, but they're moving forward with their own EVs. Tesla may not be perfect, but other manufacturers finally starting to compete is a net win for Tesla and EV customers everywhere. And it simply wouldn't have happened on the time-scale we're seeing now, if Tesla didn't put themselves out there and DO something this past decade.
 
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