Why do the performance variants have less range than the non-performance?

[dk10438]

Hi,
wondering why the performance versions of the cars are rated at fewer miles than the non-performance cars?

 

[commasign]

For Model S and X, performance versions have a larger rear motor than the non-performance versions. Heavier and less efficient.

 

[ewoodrick]

Efficiency versus Performance is a common trade-off.
Tires, wheels, weight, even something like the spoiler all decrease efficiencies.

 

[jerry33]

This is true for every single car made. Performance is the opposite of economy.

 

[dk10438]

I was unaware that the motors were different...
Ludicrous v. non ludicrous performance is just a software switch

 

[Russell]

I was unaware that the motors were different...
Ludicrous v. non ludicrous performance is just a software switch

But it has the performance motor which the non-performance models do not have.

 

[dk10438]

But it has the performance motor which the non-performance models do not have.

I was only illustrating that better performance doesn't always result in inferior economy. Like I said, I was unaware that the rear motors were different between performance and non-performance variants

 

[jsmay311]

This is true for every single car made. Performance is the opposite of economy.

Not true for P3D w/ 18" wheels vs non-P AWD Model 3 w/ 18" wheels.

 

[robg]

When it comes to teslas, I think the biggest difference is due to wheel size.

 

[dedicatedtek]

I think this is why the performance models get less range....

 

[SSedan]

The idea that wheel size directly affects efficiency needs to go away, it is wrong. Often the TIRES on larger diameter wheels are more performance oriented "stickier" hurting efficiency but that is not directly due to wheel diameter. The argument about weight has some merit but weight is of little concern in steady state cruise and most range concerns involve steady state cruise.

Last time I spec'd out a car on the website it let me keep 19s on a P model S but did reflect a range reduction, point being the larger performance rear motor is less efficient. 21" wheels with their less efficient TIRES would lower range beyond stated.

 

[jerry33]

Not true for P3D w/ 18" wheels vs noI believe the tires are different though. Performance tires make a differencen-P AWD Model 3 w/ 18" wheels.

The idea that wheel size directly affects efficiency needs to go away, it is wrong. Often the TIRES on larger diameter wheels are more performance oriented "stickier" hurting efficiency but that is not directly due to wheel diameter. The argument about weight has some merit but weight is of little concern in steady state cruise and most range concerns involve steady state cruise.

This is basically correct. In stop and go driving, the wheel weight makes some difference because energy is required to get it rotating and energy is required to move the wheel mass forward (double whammy). However, the energy required to rotate is more the further away the rotating mass is from the centre of rotation. This means the the belts and tread compound are the worst offenders followed by the bead area of the tire, followed by the rim surface. (The hub and spokes/disk of the wheel require little energy to rotate). The one other place where the weight will hurt is on a rough road where the up and down motion (even if small) requires energy to overcome.

The thing is that even if you get the same model of tire in different wheel sizes, the lower aspect ratio tire of the larger diameter wheel is still likely to have a more performance oriented tread compound increasing rolling resistance. (For clarity, this would not be the case if the aspect ratio was the same, but then the tire on the larger diameter wheel would be too large for the car.)

 

[Kruegmeister]

Current Version: Long Range 370, Performance 345. Ludicrous does not effect Range. 21 vs 19 does not either.
My 2018 P100D w/ludicrous is 315 miles instead of 330, still almost 100 miles better than the closest competitor....

 

[whitex]

Remember that the rated is rang is just that, rated range by some standard. Performance cars will drive more aggressively if the test says "accelerate at 50% throttle". While the rear motor is less efficient. when cruising on the highway, the rear motor is not used that much. We have a S75D and P85DL, S75D has a higher rated range than P85DL, and yet, when going on trips together at the same speeds, their energy usage (Wh/mile) is almost identical, which means P85DL's additional 4KWh of battery (yes, they are really 81KWh batteries with 77KWh usable, while 75's are actually 75KWh with 73KWh usable) will actually go farther, given the same driving between the two cars.

 

[Alexander]

The difference between range as of today is 348 miles for the Performance and 390 miles for the Long Range version.

What makes the performance rear motor different than the long range motor? Specifically, what's the technology that makes it a performance motor and thus makes it less efficient?

 

[SSedan]

Front motor was changed to permanent magnet, as well as some upgrades to wheel bearings and such, that was the source of the Raven range gain.

The rear S X motors are AC induction the performance variants getting a larger one than the standard.

The 3 has PM motors both ends.

 

[Alysashley79]

Back in the day circa 2013 the Seattle service center had the actual motors siting in their showroom. They had the P motor along with the non P version. Of course this was just the rear motor but both the size and weight were completely different.

it’s funny because most people think the only difference between the way a perf drives is the take off. It really it’s th entire way it drives. It’s faster all the way around.

 

[sorka]

This is true for every single car made. Performance is the opposite of economy.

That's not actually true. Once hypercars like the P1 started adding front wheel drive electric hybrid power trains, their power and fuel efficiency both went up dramatically at the same time.

Of course the P1 will never be as efficient as a Prius