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Why does it charge so slowly?

UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
334
136
UK
I personally find this guy does some great videos. Knows his stuff for sure. Probs on this forum! Getting some harsh comments on the video... I was wondering why the e tron can charge so much more quickly than the M3...

 

Burley

Member
Mar 10, 2021
30
15
United Kingdom
Etron has a massive buffer at the top, so apparent 90% SOC is really a much lower real SOC, so it can charge at a faster rate to a higher apparent SOC compared with Tesla which shows SOC pretty close to actual battery level.
 

UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
334
136
UK
Well I’ve been a M3 LR owner for a year now and still learning! Getting to the point where I may change it while it’s got some decent value. Certainly a lot to learn about Tesla alternatives. However, for me, I do tend to plan journeys, so looking for maximum range with the shortest number/duration of stops. I’m not yet comfortable for a world without superchargers, but getting there. More to learn!
 

LoudMusic

Member
Jul 21, 2020
312
386
Arkansas
Well I’ve been a M3 LR owner for a year now and still learning! Getting to the point where I may change it while it’s got some decent value. Certainly a lot to learn about Tesla alternatives. However, for me, I do tend to plan journeys, so looking for maximum range with the shortest number/duration of stops. I’m not yet comfortable for a world without superchargers, but getting there. More to learn!

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but because of the charge curve on all EVs (e-tron included) it's actually faster to make more stops and arrive at the charger between 5 and 10%, then charge to only enough to reach your next charging location. That way you're always in the state of charge range where the battery accepts power the fastest.
 
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UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
334
136
UK
Yeh and I use ABRP to manage that. But I would still find it odd if I was in the exact charging situation as per the video, I would be wondering why the Etron is charging so much more quickly than my M3. Regardless of either cars state of charge.
 

MooseBerg

Member
Mar 9, 2021
13
14
Edinburgh
This is odd, given it's not comparing how quickly they charge in any meaningful way. If you're driving a distance you need an amount of range, not a percentage of battery. So charge them to the same remaining range and you're comparing meaningful charging. As others observed, the percentage is just different due to how much Audi chop off the top, to be able to say "look how quick ours charges at the top end" even though this makes the car worse for the end user as they have no option of trickle charging it higher for an extra hint of range at the start of a day of driving. On a side note, my speakers go up to 11...
 
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Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,210
783
Knaphill
Different charging curve. It actually charges slower in total. Especially if you are talking about how many actual miles you get per time charging....

 

Louis0w

Member
Mar 6, 2020
100
84
Bridgend, Wales, UK
I'd rather complete a long journey in a more efficient car with a shallower charging curve, than a less efficient car with a steeper curve. Less efficient = more charging stops on a longer journey, so the benefit of a steeper charging curve becomes less relevant.
 
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UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
334
136
UK

GeorgeSymonds

Member
Mar 16, 2018
919
523
UK
This is odd, given it's not comparing how quickly they charge in any meaningful way. If you're driving a distance you need an amount of range, not a percentage of battery. So charge them to the same remaining range and you're comparing meaningful charging. As others observed, the percentage is just different due to how much Audi chop off the top, to be able to say "look how quick ours charges at the top end" even though this makes the car worse for the end user as they have no option of trickle charging it higher for an extra hint of range at the start of a day of driving. On a side note, my speakers go up to 11...
I actually see it as completely the opposite. The test is "drive a distance and how long does it take to get back to the state of charge when you started". Now sure the Model 3 could go further before a charge, but if you looked at it as how many miles of range can the etron add in a given time compared to the Model 3, the e-tron wins. If you can avoid the stop altogether in the model 3 and not in the e-tron then the Tesla has an advantage, but I still think its a valid test.

Not using the top part of the battery is also better for the battery so for me, the e-tron wins on that too.
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
428
411
UK
I dunno, you can look at this in multiple ways. I don't think Richard's video is misleading, it's a pretty normal behavior to charge to a target figure.

If I model a long journey in ABRP from London to Glasgow, a Model 3 LR ends up about 30mins faster than an Etron 55 Quattro, pretty irrespective of what level of charge I want to end with. That's far closer than I guess I was expecting, Ionity and other 150KW chargers certainly are making a big difference.
 

Gatsojon

Member
Aug 4, 2019
564
530
Manchester UK
Different charging curve. It actually charges slower in total. Especially if you are talking about how many actual miles you get per time charging....

A very interesting read. Thanks for posting. It’s almost like VAG have learnt nothing from Dieselgate
 

UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
334
136
UK
I agree that the video isn’t misleading. That certainly wasn’t the intent on posting this. I found it interesting that this is a real world example of likely behaviour, and that if you were in this situation you might query why the Tesla is charging slower.
 

tsh2

Member
Aug 27, 2019
274
71
Cambridge, UK
Looks like the Etron is pretty close to the V2 tesla profile, just caped at 80% physical SOC and with a bigger buffer at the bottom too. From the article, it seems less efficient too.
 

MooseBerg

Member
Mar 9, 2021
13
14
Edinburgh
I actually see it as completely the opposite. The test is "drive a distance and how long does it take to get back to the state of charge when you started". Now sure the Model 3 could go further before a charge, but if you looked at it as how many miles of range can the etron add in a given time compared to the Model 3, the e-tron wins. If you can avoid the stop altogether in the model 3 and not in the e-tron then the Tesla has an advantage, but I still think its a valid test.

Not using the top part of the battery is also better for the battery so for me, the e-tron wins on that too.
Fair alternative viewpoint. For me, the reason I don't think this way is that if I'm fast-charging it is because I am on a journey - overnight or whenever is when I aim to return the car to pre-journey state of charge. However, others may only feel happy setting off on any given leg of a journey with x% charge or whatever.
I still wonder how well many people will do with EV charging in general - I see people on EV forums say things like "well obviously they'd exclude those slow chargers from their search filter on app xyz" but as a person with a wife who really, really doesn't care about any tech I don't see her doing that - so she may be the person who thinks charging takes 5 hours or whatever cause she used a trickle charger in the middle of a road trip.
 

Neilman

Member
Mar 27, 2020
236
136
Southampton, UK
One thing that was never mentioned on the video was battery precondtioning - obviously with the rules they've used preconditioning could be not an option here since the Tesla was not using a supercharger putting it at a disadvantage.
Would charging have been faster if preconditioning had been applied for that 51% to 90% charging session?
 

Andy_T_73

Member
Jul 22, 2019
167
111
Prestwick
In the real world I'm not sure pre-conditioning buys much other than bragging rights to a high peak KW number for a few minutes. What you make in headline charging speed you lose in high energy consumption beforehand when it's pre-conditioning on the way. The rate it drains the battery in those 10 miles or so is alarming.
 

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,210
783
Knaphill
In the real world I'm not sure pre-conditioning buys much other than bragging rights to a high peak KW number for a few minutes. What you make in headline charging speed you lose in high energy consumption beforehand when it's pre-conditioning on the way. The rate it drains the battery in those 10 miles or so is alarming.
Heavily depends on the conditions. In the summer with battery temp at 30C, very little time saved by going to 50C for peak charging/performance. in the Winter with 10C, you get a big difference with preconditioning - assuming you start early enough.

This is especially true of heatpump cars because the heatpump keeps the battery cold (less waste heat) during winter. To the point where the performance model will go into limp mode if it's -10C outside and you are nearing 10% - although I'm sure it will (if not already) be fixed by software. Bjorn did a few videos demonstrating this in Norway.

Basically at around 45C you have peak charging/performance in the battery - how many KW it can produce or take. If you are below that by a meaningful amount you will not charge as fast. I live about 3 min from a supercharger. If I go into a cold car (e.g. 5C) and drive to a supercharger with 20-30% to top up I'll get 45KW.... If I preheat for ~30 min before I go I'll get the max.

Before you ask, I live in a flat right now so cant charge at home....
 

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